Evidence of meeting #9 for Justice and Human Rights in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was c-9.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Bloc
Rhéal Fortin Bloc Rivière-du-Nord, QC
Ms. Al-Azem, I'm sorry, but the clock is ticking, and I have about two minutes left.
Ms. Bussières McNicoll, you heard my question. What are your thoughts?
Director, Fundamental Freedoms Program, Canadian Civil Liberties Association
I'll go back to the religious exemption issue you mentioned earlier. That exemption applies only to the offence of wilfully promoting hatred. There are other offences—
Bloc
Director, Fundamental Freedoms Program, Canadian Civil Liberties Association
Yes. Antisemitism is defined as holocaust denial. That is a precise definition, but it's not necessarily what people understand—
Bloc
Rhéal Fortin Bloc Rivière-du-Nord, QC
Are these defences legitimate, or should they be eliminated from the Criminal Code?
Director, Fundamental Freedoms Program, Canadian Civil Liberties Association
I'll try to answer—
Bloc
Rhéal Fortin Bloc Rivière-du-Nord, QC
Would everyone else please stop talking because it's causing interference. Thank you.
Ms. Bussières McNicoll, go ahead with your answer.
Director, Fundamental Freedoms Program, Canadian Civil Liberties Association
I want to clarify that making public statements likely to incite violence against an identifiable group is already an offence—
Bloc
Rhéal Fortin Bloc Rivière-du-Nord, QC
Sorry to interrupt, but I only have about a minute left. We already know the rules.
Here's my question. In your opinion, should these defences be eliminated from the Criminal Code or not?
Director, Fundamental Freedoms Program, Canadian Civil Liberties Association
Currently, the Criminal Code states that incitement to hatred—
Bloc
Rhéal Fortin Bloc Rivière-du-Nord, QC
I'm sorry to interrupt you, Ms. Bussières McNicoll. We could talk about this for a long time, and I'm sure that would be nice, but I'm running out of time.
Should these defences be eliminated, yes or no?
Director, Fundamental Freedoms Program, Canadian Civil Liberties Association
Given that the expression “wilful promotion of hatred” is likely to lead to abuse and that the definition set out by the Supreme Court of Canada is currently being challenged by Bill C‑9, we do not support the elimination—
Director, Fundamental Freedoms Program, Canadian Civil Liberties Association
—of statutory defences.
Bloc
Rhéal Fortin Bloc Rivière-du-Nord, QC
Is Adil Charkaoui's statement, which I read, acceptable in the Canadian public space?
Director, Fundamental Freedoms Program, Canadian Civil Liberties Association
That depends on the context. In this particular case, I honestly don't see why it wouldn't be covered by criminal charges other than wilfully promoting hatred, where there's a defence—
Bloc
Rhéal Fortin Bloc Rivière-du-Nord, QC
It would take more than a few seconds to decide what section charges could be laid under.
Director, Fundamental Freedoms Program, Canadian Civil Liberties Association
It's actually very important.
Director, Fundamental Freedoms Program, Canadian Civil Liberties Association
Sir, I've answered your question. I think that it could be covered by other criminal charges depending on the context.
Bloc
Rhéal Fortin Bloc Rivière-du-Nord, QC
Mr. Chair, interpretation problems cost some time, and people talking in the room also cost me precious seconds. I'd like you to be lenient.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Marc Miller
Mr. Fortin, you have been interrupting a lot of people. You might let them finish what they're saying.
To the people in the back, it's enough regulating this mess. You should keep it quiet or go outside and continue the conversation there.
Thank you.
We'll go over to Mr. Baber for five minutes.
Conservative
Roman Baber Conservative York Centre, ON
Thank you.
Ms. Al-Azem, you're director of legal affairs for the National Council of Canadian Muslims. Is that correct?
Director of Legal Affairs, National Council of Canadian Muslims
That's correct.