National Defence Committee on March 18th, 2010

[Bryon Wilfert, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Minister.

Mr. Chairman, I may then ask for these answers in writing, if I could.

Minister, I'll return to the subject I brought up before about the navy. It's been reported that DND is trying to save about $423 million at the end of the month to free up money for equipment purchases. In the meantime it's been reported that the navy has cut training of its reserves and reduced infrastructure maintenance and repairs. The air force has issues as well.

The Canadian navy, it seems to me, is in dire need of support. Over a year ago I asked the vice-admiral about the status of the JSS. He stated at the time that he was redefining the requirements, and that by summer we'd have a new plan. In October I asked again about the status of JSS, and again it was reaffirmed by the admiral that he had consulted the industry and was submitting their returns.

It's now four years later and we still have no word on the status of these ships. This was a priority for the government in 2006. I'd like to know where we are on that.

I'd like to put something else on the table. What is the status of the Arctic offshore patrol ships? This is something you know we've been talking about with regard to Arctic sovereignty. It's my understanding that there's been a scaling back of the capabilities and the numbers, which would obviously be a concern to us.

My final question is whether the JSS are still a priority. This past July we had what we called a shipbuilding summit with industry and discussed the requirements. The JSS are moving in parallel with the results of that summit. In fact, industry has just returned to the four departments that were leading that summit, with returns in mid-September. So this is obviously very fresh. I'd really like to know where we are on this project, because we were supposed to get them in 2012, and now it could be five or six years down the road.

The answers will probably have to be in writing, Mr. Chairman, but I wanted to get those questions on the table.

[The Chair, Conservative, Maxime Bernier]

Yes.

I think they will have to be in writing, Minister. You have only 30 seconds.

[Peter MacKay, Conservative, Central Nova, NS]

Sure.

Mr. Wilfert, I can assure you that the navy and shipbuilding projects remain a huge priority for the Department of National Defence. JSS would be at the very top of that list. We saw the utility of having the type of vessel envisioned for our joint supply ship in the use in Haiti, for example, and deployment into the Americas.

We hope that contract will be able to be put out in the very near future. We had envisioned bringing forward an entire strategy, which, as you know, involves not just Canadian Forces ships but also ships that are under the purview of the Department of Fisheries and Oceans, such as coastal ships and icebreakers. So a package of ships was what we had hoped to bring forward.

As you rightly pointed out, we had discussions this past August with industry, and all departments were there in an unprecedented way. Public Works, Industry Canada, Fisheries and Oceans, and our own department met directly with industry to lay out in a very systematic way the number of ships, which can be upwards of 50 ships. The budget within our department is identified. Our money is there.

We also understand--and this will be my last point, Mr. Chair--that there have been problems, as you know, with one of the shipbuilding facilities that would be a primary contractor, a primary bidder, on these projects. The Davie shipyard in Lévis has experienced difficulties. That has also been factored in as we move forward.

I don't know if the vice-chief wants to add anything further, but our intention is to proceed post-haste. Non-compliant bids have come back. That was, I would express to you, the reason for part of the delay. But this is a national shipbuilding program that will affect every shipbuilding facility in the country. There is enough work for shipbuilders, large and small, to bid on and successfully receive contracts in this regard.

[Bryon Wilfert, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

That would tie in with the need for a national shipbuilding strategy.

[Peter MacKay, Conservative, Central Nova, NS]

Correct.

[Bryon Wilfert, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

My last comment is that some of these ships are older than the sailors who are on them, so I'm obviously concerned about that.

[Peter MacKay, Conservative, Central Nova, NS]

Yes, you're absolutely right.

[The Chair, Conservative, Maxime Bernier]

Thank you, Mr. Wilfert.

I understand that the department and the minister will provide a written response to your question. I just want to be fair to all members.

We have ten minutes for Monsieur Paillé.

[Pascal-Pierre Paillé, Bloc, Louis-Hébert, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to inform you that the final minutes of our speaking time will go to my colleague, Mr. Plamondon.

I thank the minister for being here. I would like to start with a rather specific question. In one section of your summary table, we see the Military Police Complaints Commission. As I understand it, the commission still has not had a chair nominated.

Could you tell me if you plan to have a new chair? In the estimates that have been approved so far, we see that no adjustments have been made. The chair's salary is still there. I would like some information about the chair of the Military Police Complaints Commission.

[Peter MacKay, Conservative, Central Nova, NS]

Yes, absolutely.

Yes, we plan to appoint a new chair. Someone is chairing the committees at the moment. This is a good thing, as it ensues continuity. I hope that we will be able to hear about the committee's deliberations in two or three weeks.

[Pascal-Pierre Paillé, Bloc, Louis-Hébert, QC]

So you feel that there will be a new appointment in two or three weeks.

[Peter MacKay, Conservative, Central Nova, NS]

Yes.

[William F. Pentney, Associate Deputy Minister, Department of National Defence]

May I add that the chair's salary is established by the Privy Council Office independently of our department.

[Pascal-Pierre Paillé, Bloc, Louis-Hébert, QC]

So the salary is not included in the amounts that are already preapproved?

[William F. Pentney]

Yes.

[Peter MacKay, Conservative, Central Nova, NS]

Just to be clear, when the Military Police Complaints Commission commences its work again, there will be an acting chair, somebody who is already part of the commission. We're not appointing a new one. We are not bringing in somebody from outside the existing body, just to be clear.

[Pascal-Pierre Paillé, Bloc, Louis-Hébert, QC]

Do you foresee an official chair being in place within a reasonable period? You keep talking about an acting chair. At what point do you foresee the commission having an official chair?

[Peter MacKay, Conservative, Central Nova, NS]

The acting chair will be the official chair, but it will be for a year as opposed to the permanent appointment, which I believe is for a three-year duration.

So rather than bring somebody in from outside the existing body, we have chosen to elevate somebody to the chair's position who was already part of the commission.

[Pascal-Pierre Paillé, Bloc, Louis-Hébert, QC]

Thank you.

On another matter, at the meeting last December 8, I asked a high-ranking army officer about the reservists that had been cut. This was the information I received. In the middle of the fiscal year, the Department of National Defence reassigned $80 million from the army's budget to finance other priorities. At the end of his answer, he said that the army is still dealing with financial pressures at the moment.

In the supplementary estimates document, nothing shows me that the army's budget has been reworked. Nor does anything show me that, in the long term, there will be a correction so that we do not get into giving contracts to reservists, then thanking them for their services just in order to hire them back later.

So I would like a little more information about the reservists who were temporarily laid off.

[Peter MacKay, Conservative, Central Nova, NS]

Sure. Well, they were not suspended or eliminated.

I'm glad you asked this question, because reservists are an integral part of the Canadian Forces. They do spectacular work, and most, as you know, have other full-time positions and work in our communities in many different capacities. They're your neighbours, your hockey coaches, your teachers, and your firefighters. They are an integral part of Canadian Forces operations and plans. In some cases, on deployments such as Haiti and Afghanistan, 20% to 30% of the participants come from the reserves.

That being said, as you would expect, commensurate with the tempo of operations, we invest in and train up reservists to fit the need. So when the tempo is high, we need more reservists. When things start to slow down, that also impacts on the number of reservists and the training hours.

As well, adjustments are based on the number of regular forces that we have available. We're in a period of growth and expansion right now in the Canadian Forces. As part of the Canada First defence strategy, we have committed to bringing our entire force to 100,000--with 30,000 reservists and 70,000 regular forces.

I'm pleased to tell this committee--and I know you'd be interested in knowing--we've had a record year in terms of recruiting and retention. That is to say, because of the level of commitment and interest in the Canadian Forces right now--and there is a formula that's applied--attrition is down, retention is up, and record numbers are coming into the forces. This impacts very much on the number of reservists and the budgets committed for training. All of this is calculated by our senior officials within the Canadian Forces to meet the needs.

For your interest, colleagues, we've grown by 2,000 this year alone. That is, our force numbers have actually gone up by 2,000, which is a record year for us.

I want to be very clear that there is no impact on training when it comes to reserves that are deploying into Afghanistan. They receive the same training as regular forces because we expect the same of them when they're in the theatre of operations.

There is, from time to time, impact when financial implications arise, as they do in every budget year. Every effort has been made to ensure that our soldiers' preparation, training, and participation in operations are not affected in that regard. So I can assure you our reservists remain an integral part of all of this planning. Their service to country is remarkable and admirable, and we support them in every way.

[Pascal-Pierre Paillé, Bloc, Louis-Hébert, QC]

Okay.

How much time do I have left? Three minutes?

[The Chair, Conservative, Maxime Bernier]

Yes.

[Pascal-Pierre Paillé, Bloc, Louis-Hébert, QC]

I got part of the information. I have the translation and, though I understand English, given the circumstances, I use the translation even though there is some delay. But I do not want to dwell on the matter either.

According to my information, there actually was a reduction in the number of reservists hired full-time. I would appreciate it if you could perhaps send us more information on the number of reservists who will be hired back part-time compared to those hired full-time.

I can understand that part-time reservists have other jobs, but some full-time reservists were temporarily laid off. That is the aspect that concerns me and I do not want to see it happen again in the future.

I will now give the floor to my colleague, Mr. Plamondon.

[Peter MacKay, Conservative, Central Nova, NS]

Of course, I will provide that information.

[Louis Plamondon, Bloc, Bas-Richelieu—Nicolet—Bécancour, QC]

Thank you for appearing before the committee, Mr. Minister.

I have a question about the tanks we bought from the Netherlands. We bought 100 tanks to use in Afghanistan. We borrowed 20 tanks from Germany for a time as we made modifications to the ones that we bought from the Netherlands.

At the moment, 20 of them are having the modifications done in Germany by a German firm that was given a non-tendered contract. They will be ready in 2012, but we have to give them back to Germany since the ones that Germany lent us are no longer operational.

The others are stored in 25 warehouses in Montreal, or are still in the Netherlands. They will have the modifications done later. Apparently, there will be a tender. Remember, Germany has a head start since they will already have modified the first 20 when they submit their bid.

Does it seem like a good idea to you that we bought those hundred tanks that were supposed to serve in Afghanistan, but that will not be ready until 2015?