Evidence of meeting #20 for National Defence in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was ombudsman.
A video is available from Parliament.
3:45 p.m.
Conservative
Leona Alleslev Conservative Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON
Did you direct the ombudsman to investigate the allegations that he brought to you?
3:45 p.m.
Liberal
Harjit S. Sajjan Liberal Vancouver South, BC
Madam Chair, as I stated before, when the information was brought forward, one, I could not hear it. However, I gave very clear advice on exactly what needed to be done.
3:45 p.m.
Conservative
Leona Alleslev Conservative Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON
Minister, this is not advice. Did you or did you not direct the ombudsman to investigate?
3:45 p.m.
Liberal
Harjit S. Sajjan Liberal Vancouver South, BC
Madam Chair, as I stated, I cannot direct in an investigation. That would be political interference.
3:45 p.m.
Conservative
3:45 p.m.
Conservative
Leona Alleslev Conservative Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON
On March 10 in the House of Commons, the Prime Minister said that the minister—you—directed the ombudsman to independent officials who could investigate. Is that true?
3:45 p.m.
Liberal
Harjit S. Sajjan Liberal Vancouver South, BC
Information was provided to PCO officials because they are in charge of Governor in Council appointments. That is a very important—
3:45 p.m.
Conservative
Leona Alleslev Conservative Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON
In your mind, Minister, who was charged with being responsible for investigating this allegation?
3:45 p.m.
Liberal
Harjit S. Sajjan Liberal Vancouver South, BC
Only the appropriate authorities can do an investigation.
3:45 p.m.
Conservative
Leona Alleslev Conservative Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON
Who are the appropriate authorities to investigate allegations against the code of service discipline of the chief of the defence staff?
3:45 p.m.
Liberal
Harjit S. Sajjan Liberal Vancouver South, BC
It would be the military police, the NIS, or if it occurs outside.... When it comes to an investigation, if any other—
3:45 p.m.
Conservative
Leona Alleslev Conservative Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON
Whose responsibility is it to make sure they know to investigate?
3:45 p.m.
Liberal
3:45 p.m.
Conservative
Leona Alleslev Conservative Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON
Who tells them to investigate? Who makes them aware, so they know to investigate?
3:45 p.m.
Liberal
Harjit S. Sajjan Liberal Vancouver South, BC
I do not direct or inform in any type of investigation. I cannot. That would be political interference. I have to remove.... People need to go—
3:45 p.m.
Conservative
Leona Alleslev Conservative Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON
Minister, the RCMP were called in to investigate Admiral Norman, and he was suspended when a file was created by the RCMP. Charges were laid, and Admiral Norman was tried publicly in court.
Can we expect the same process to proceed for General Vance, or is 20 years of alleged sexual oppression and abuse of authority not as serious of an offence as allegedly leaking shipbuilding procurement documents?
3:45 p.m.
Liberal
Harjit S. Sajjan Liberal Vancouver South, BC
When it comes to the investigation of Admiral Norman, that was, again, done absolutely independently of our office. This case here will also be done independently of our office.
3:45 p.m.
Conservative
Leona Alleslev Conservative Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON
It will be done by whom, Minister? By whom will it be done? Whose authority and responsibility is it to ensure that it gets done?
3:45 p.m.
Liberal
Harjit S. Sajjan Liberal Vancouver South, BC
A military police investigation.... It depends upon the allegation.
3:45 p.m.
Conservative
Leona Alleslev Conservative Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON
Did you follow up with the military police to make sure that the investigation was ongoing?
3:45 p.m.
Conservative
Leona Alleslev Conservative Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON
Did you follow up with anyone to ensure that the investigation was completed?
3:45 p.m.
Liberal
3:45 p.m.
Liberal
