National Defence Committee on Nov. 22nd, 2022

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

I call the meeting to order.

This is the 40th meeting of the defence committee. We are continuing our study on Arctic search and rescue.

We have with us two witnesses in person. It's shocking. We're getting so used to having people online that we'll have to swear them in and all of that sort of stuff.

I will call on Neil O'Rourke, assistant commissioner of the Arctic region, to present for five minutes. I'm assuming that both Mr. Wight and Mr. O'Rourke will be willing to answer members' questions after that.

Go ahead, Mr. O'Rourke.

[Neil O'Rourke, Assistant Commissioner, Arctic Region, Canadian Coast Guard, Department of Fisheries and Oceans]

Bonjour and good afternoon, Mr. Chair and committee members.

My name is Neil O'Rourke, and I'm the assistant commissioner for the Arctic region for the Canadian Coast Guard.

My colleague and I appreciate the opportunity to come here today to appear before this committee on behalf of the department and to have a conversation about icebreaking and then search and rescue.

I am accompanied today by Mr. Robb Wight, who is the director general of vessel procurement.

We are here today to talk about the Canadian Coast Guard's icebreaking capabilities in the Arctic.

The Coast Guard's mandate is to ensure the safety of mariners in Canadian waters and the protection of Canada's marine environment, as well as to support Canada's economic growth through the safe and efficient movement of maritime trade. We also contribute to our country's sovereignty and security, including in the north, through our presence in all Canadian waters.

The Canadian Coast Guard is mission-ready 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, and operates in almost...

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

On a point of order. There is no interpretation.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Are we good?

Please repeat yourself.

[Neil O'Rourke]

The Canadian Coast Guard operates in almost any and all weather conditions during the Arctic shipping season.

This year, the Coast Guard is celebrating its 60th anniversary. Over the years, the Coast Guard has witnessed many changes in the north, partly due to climate change, a changing landscape, an increased international interest and a growing domestic population.

Through these changes, the Canadian Coast Guard has played and will continue to play a critical role in Arctic safety and security.

Our fleet is at the core of the delivery of Coast Guard programs, and our icebreakers are at the core of our current fleet. Up to 19 icebreakers operate each winter to make sure that marine traffic moves safely everywhere in the country, and their number ranges from 7 to 9 in the Arctic.

These same icebreakers also facilitate access to open waters in the spring so that the fisheries can be opened as early as possible, while not compromising the lives of mariners. In between what we call the “shoulder seasons” of spring and fall, a number of those ice-capable vessels, which range from seven to nine each year, travel up and down to serve the Arctic.

From facilitating critical resupply activities to surveying the bottom of waterways so that hydrographic charts can be produced, providing marine safety for search and rescue or environmental response missions, and contributing to Canada's Arctic sovereignty, these icebreakers have been and will continue to be of critical importance to Canada's north—

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Mr. O'Rourke, perhaps you could slow it down a bit. You're being translated simultaneously, and the translator is having a bit of difficulty keeping up.

[Neil O'Rourke]

I apologize for that.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

It's no problem.

Thank you.

[Neil O'Rourke]

Indeed, the criticality of these icebreakers cannot be understated.

As outlined in the recently published Office of the Auditor General report on the surveillance of Arctic waters, over the past 30 years, the number of voyages in Canadian Arctic waters has more than tripled, due to factors such as reduced sea ice cover and advances in technology, shipping and tourism. We know that increased traffic means more possibilities and more risk—and an increase in demand for CCG programs and services.

In response to this concern, one of the key actions we are taking is strengthening and renewing our fleet and increasing our capacity and presence in the Arctic in particular, thanks to the national shipbuilding strategy.

Investments for icebreaking and ice-capable vessels announced through the national shipbuilding strategy to date include funding for 16 multi-purpose vessels, six program icebreakers and two Arctic offshore patrol vessel ships. The Coast Guard will also be building two new polar icebreakers. They will be larger and more powerful than the current heavy icebreakers in our fleet and will enable the Coast Guard to operate in the Canadian Arctic throughout the year with enhanced capabilities to support a variety of taskings and provide a capability unmatched to date by the current fleet.

Since we know that not all of the new vessels will be ready by the time the new vessels come on line, we are also making important investments to extend the life of our current fleet. Known as vessel life extensions, or VLEs, we safely prolong the life of our fleet so that the Canadian Coast Guard can operate and have the proper equipment to perform their crucial work.

In 2018, the Government of Canada awarded a contract for the acquisition and conversion of three commercial medium icebreakers. They're helping to ensure the continuity of service for the Coast Guard's icebreaking operations and the safe passage of marine traffic through Canada's waterways.

This year, we've also had the benefit of seeing the acquisition of a fourth commercial light icebreaker that will be ready to serve for the 2023 icebreaking season.

These vessels will ensure uninterrupted service by the Coast Guard while existing vessels are taken out of service to undergo vessel life extension work. One can view these four icebreakers called “interim” as car loaners—the principle is that we bring an existing vessel into the shipyard, but we have the use of these interim vessels in the meantime, just like you would do at a garage.

To top this up, we have also started making use of third party vessels, or what we call “spot charters” through established standing offer contracts that allow us to draw down on these services if and when required. This allows us to supplement our fleet when demand exceeds our capacity.

In closing, I am also proud to inform you that the Coast Guard is working to develop our first Arctic strategy based on four years of collaboration with Inuit, first nation and Métis partners as we stood up the Arctic region. This will provide strategic direction to our Coast Guard members for the coming decade.

We're aware that the decades to come will bring many more changes to the Arctic and the development of such a strategy will be ever-evolving. That being said, it is with this strategic planning that we position and strengthen the Coast Guard for the long-term. The Coast Guard's working to ensure the organization is well placed to meet the expanding needs of our partners and clients.

Thank you very much for your attention. Rob Wight and I would be very pleased to answer your questions.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you, Assistant Commissioner O'Rourke.

The first questioner is Mr. Bezan for six minutes, please.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank our commissioners for joining us today and for their testimony.

We are now seeing increased near peer and geopolitical powers congregating in the Arctic. There's the build-up of the Russian military in their Arctic with more capabilities for protecting their Arctic sovereignty and projecting that power. We're also seeing China investing in their own People's Liberation Army Navy with heavy icebreakers even though they're not an Arctic nation. They're a near-Arctic nation and have interests there through the “belt and road” initiative and, of course, their interest in establishing their own strategy in what they call the “polar silk road”.

Has as the Canadian Coast Guard provided any input or made any requests to the Government of Canada's Indo-Pacific strategy?

[Neil O'Rourke]

With regard specifically to the Indo-Pacific strategy, it is not something that the Coast Guard has been very involved in.

I would need to confirm with some of my counterparts in headquarters to see if we have been engaged. I am responsible for all of the operations in the north, but of course that kind of initiative would be managed out of our headquarters.

While I do not, to the best of my knowledge, believe that we have been participating in the development of it, we would need to confirm and get back to you.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

Has the Canadian Coast Guard been engaged at all in discussions with other Arctic Council members as to how we deal with a more aggressive Russia in the Arctic, as well as the growing interest of the Communist Party of China in our Arctic by using both commercial vessels and scientific research vessels that have been transiting through the Northwest Passage, as well as their People's Liberation Army Navy icebreaking capabilities?

[Neil O'Rourke]

With regard to our international collaboration, we do in fact work extensively with the other Arctic nations. Up until the beginning of 2022, when there was the Russian reinvasion of Ukraine, we worked with a total of eight Arctic nations—so seven others, including ourselves and Russia—as part of both the Arctic Council and the Arctic Coast Guard Forum.

Under the Arctic Council, as you are likely aware, there are different committees or themes. One of them, the EPPR or the environmental protection group, is something that the Canadian Coast Guard leads on behalf of the Canadian government. There are multiple departments that sit there. We, as the Coast Guard, are kind of the lead agency as part of that work.

The Arctic Coast Guard Forum is a forum that exists between the coast guards of the eight Arctic nations. Again, like with the Arctic Council, the work was paused in early March, following the reinvasion of Ukraine. We continue to have dialogues and conversations with the six other Arctic nations, both under the auspices of the Arctic Council—led by foreign affairs and GAC, of course—and the ACGF, with the coast guards more specifically, about a way forward in this changing environment. We participate as part of those two fora.

In addition, we have bilateral relationships with all of the other Arctic nations, minus Russia. We work very closely, including with our next-door neighbour, the U.S. Coast Guard of the 17th District in Alaska. I work very closely with the rear admiral who's the commander there. We talk about everything, including some of the issues you've raised. We also work very closely with the Danish Armed Forces and the Joint Arctic Command base in Nuuk, Greenland.

Essentially, for me, those are our next-door neighbours from an operational perspective. We compare notes on maritime awareness and such things related to the two countries that you mentioned.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

You have about two minutes.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

I want to switch over briefly to shipbuilding. You're saying that we have orders for 16 mixed-purpose vessels and six icebreakers. Does that include the two new polar icebreakers, or is that six plus two? There are also the two AOPS.

What's the timeline? Especially with the polar icebreakers, are we going to be able to get them in the water before the Louis S. St-Laurent's life expectancy expires?

[Robert Wight, Director General, Vessel Procurement, Canadian Coast Guard, Department of Fisheries and Oceans]

Thank you for the question.

To answer your first question, the two polar icebreakers are in addition to the six program icebreakers that we have. The first polar icebreaker will be built out in Vancouver Shipyard. We are currently doing the engineering work on that, and construction is slated to begin in 2025. We're currently looking at delivery in 2030, so it will be in time to relieve the Louis S. St-Laurent.

We are now doing some vessel life extension work on her in her off-season, which will keep her going. We hope to get her through the 2030 season, because she'll be 61 at that point.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

On top of that timeline on the polar icebreakers, what about the replacement on the other ships?

Are we going to see any gaps in the ability to project both search and rescue, as well as the enforcement of Canadian law in the Arctic, if we don't have our vessels and platforms to work off of?

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Answer very briefly, please.

[Robert Wight]

Very briefly, the big risk in all of this is the retirement of the Louis S. St-Laurent before the polar icebreaker come on line with the vessels that Neil mentioned that we've bought. We can handle the low- and middle-Arctic well without that, but it's the high-Arctic with the polar icebreaker that we're worried about if it doesn't get delivered, because the only two ships that can get up there are the new polar one and the old Louis S. St-Laurent.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you, Mr. Bezan.

Madame Lambropoulos, you have six minutes, please.

[Emmanuella Lambropoulos, Liberal, Saint-Laurent, QC]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you to our witnesses for being here with us today and answering some of our questions.

One of the first questions I'm going to ask is what the main challenges are that you experience in conducting search and rescue operations in the Arctic.

Also, you started talking a bit about a strategy and working with indigenous communities in the north, and increasing their involvement in the way you do things. Could you elaborate a bit on that and let us know how the collaboration may also help with some of the challenges that you are currently experiencing?

[Neil O'Rourke]

Maybe I'll start with the collaboration. We work very closely with other federal departments, as I think you're aware, for search and rescue. We work closely with the Canadian Forces as well. What I want to focus on is our work with Inuit specifically in the north.

We've made significant investments over the last few years to develop and expand our Coast Guard auxiliary, which are essentially volunteers across the country who participate formally in the search and rescue system.

In the north it looks a bit different than it does elsewhere in Canada, where it's typically leveraging people who are already on the water—fishers and others. In the north there are a lot fewer community boats, if you will.

We have also had a very successful program over the last few years where we've been able to provide funding to communities to procure a search and rescue vessel to become part of the Coast Guard auxiliary. We're very happy now to have 32 communities participating in this—46 vessels and over 430 volunteer—as part of our auxiliary in the north. This is a really great asset for search and rescue, especially when it comes to community-based search and rescue.

When you talk about some of the challenges, there are many in operating in the north. Right off the top of my head I'll start with the distance. The Canadian Arctic is huge. On the one hand, it's a small place where Inuit travel from community to community, and it is very well covered; but on the other hand, people don't necessarily appreciate that moving ships or assets from one part of the Arctic to another can take days at a time.

In addition to the distance, one of the challenges is the communication. In most of Canada we have what we call VHF radio, which essentially allows mariners on the water to communicate with the Coast Guard and our emergency services should they get into trouble. Outside a few pockets in the north, that doesn't exist.

What happens is that we respond to many missing hunter reports, where a community is expecting a group of hunters to come home on a specific day and they don't. Then they call us, and most of the time the hunters are fine. They have simply decided to delay their trip home, but they have no way of communicating with their home community, so the community will end up calling the search and rescue system. We deploy assets at a huge cost to the Government of Canada ultimately, and all of this, in theory, could have been avoided if there were communication. That's one challenge we see that's a bit unique to the north.

In addition, we have infrastructure and assets. Again, as much as we talk about the icebreakers—we have seven to nine operating in the north—when you look again at the vast geography, they aren't that much when you're talking about coverage for search and rescue. We have limited other supports. We have the auxiliary, which is really great and strong. In the rest of Canada, we have a layer of local search and rescue stations. In the Arctic, we have one Arctic marine response station in Rankin Inlet.

I'll stop there, but hopefully that gives you a bit of a sense of some of the challenges we deal with.

[Emmanuella Lambropoulos, Liberal, Saint-Laurent, QC]

Yes, it helps a lot. Thank you.

I guess the main thing is limited infrastructure, limited connectivity.

Can you speak a little bit to how increasing infrastructure investments in the north, especially during this period, would benefit the communities there as well as our defence position?

[Neil O'Rourke]

Yes. I know there's a lot of conversation, of course, here as well as in the north about building multi-use infrastructure. We're certainly on that page.

I know in talking with our partners at National Defence and the Canadian Forces, there are possibly opportunities as there are investments in the modernization of NORAD.

At the community level, we also have those conversations. We're very well aware of some great work that has been done by ITK, the national Inuit organization, and NTI, Nunavut Tunngavik Incorporated—just to name two organizations—on actually mapping out what the infrastructure gaps look like.

From our perspective, the areas that are aligned with the Coast Guard and essentially marine infrastructure, we're very much in agreement that that kind of infrastructure would best help us as well, as a Coast Guard to deliver services.

From our perspective, part of our standing up an Arctic region and having permanent capacity in the north was about changing how we did business, and that's really looking at doing everything in partnership with Inuit, first nations and Métis.