National Defence Committee on June 2nd, 2023

[Steven Harris]

First and foremost, I'm very saddened by the case you're raising here.

I'm not aware of the particular implement of restrictions for current JTF members to access mental health benefits. We do have a process in place to shield JTF members' identities when they're going through and accessing supports from Veterans Affairs benefits. Veterans should be able, no matter what, to access supports from Veterans Affairs or from other organizations to assure their support.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Previously, JTF 2 veterans were unable to claim injury benefits because circumstances surrounding their injuries could not be shared between the defence department and Veterans Affairs.

Do the silos still exist between the two departments for mental health or has the government just not bothered to hire enough clinical psychologists with the required security clearances?

[Steven Harris]

We continue to have people in place—clinical psychologists—who are supporting veterans across all aspects of their well-being and mental health. I'm happy to follow up with the specifics on JTF members with you.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

In a prior study we heard that veterans' spouses are ignored when they called the suicide hotline. They're told it's only for the members themselves.

Has this situation changed?

[Steven Harris]

That's not correct. If anybody's having that experience of calling our VAC assistance line, which is available 24-7, and being told it's not for them, it is for veterans, for family members and for extended family as well. I would like to have any examples of that, so I can get that corrected as well.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Mrs. Gallant, I should have said we're going to have to chop a minute off for everybody. You still have two minutes.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Okay.

Why are the doctors who determine the need to medically release a soldier not used in the medical pension calculations? For civilians, it's the family doctor who completes the medical portion of the insurance or disability claim form. Why can't the same people be completing them for benefits for veterans?

[Steven Harris]

I'd have to defer you to our Canadian Armed Forces representatives to explain the role the Canadian Armed Forces' doctors have, which is not about medical assessment in terms of pension conditions. We have doctors who are in place and medical advisory that is in place to help support that, because we assess both the service relationship, which is important and which we're discussing here today, and the actual impact, the severity of it: What does that mean from a limitation point of view for that individual over the course of a lifetime beyond their military service?

It's a bit of a different look at the injury. Maybe it's the same in service or maybe not.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Maybe it just requires a different form so it can at least be done. They're short of doctors to begin with, and it takes so much of a doctor's time. If it's already being done once, why is there the duplication?

What happens to a medical pension claim if a military doctor does not report a medical incident that occurs as a requirement of employment?

[Steven Harris]

There's a benefit of doubt principle there that, even if it does not appear in a medical record from the Canadian Armed Forces, if there's a likelihood, based on the description of the injury, that it is the case. There's a benefit of doubt principle in our own legislation and the way in which we pursue disability adjudication. If it seems likely that a member sustained a knee injury related to either repetitive trauma or a single trauma, even if it's not documented, I think, as you would understand, members of the committee and Mr. Chair, not all injuries are reported in the Canadian Armed Forces for a number of reasons.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Okay.

The seamless medical care does not—

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Unfortunately, we're going to have to leave it there. It's past four minutes.

As you can see, colleagues, we're running the clock again.

Mr. May, you have four minutes.

[Bryan May, Liberal, Cambridge, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

If I could turn to Ms. Ogilvie, first of all, thank you to you and your team for all that do.

Last week, at Seamless Canada, for you, Mr. Chair, we were out at CFB Gagetown in Fredericton for our annual Seamless Canada meeting, and Ms. Ogilvie and her team made it seamless in terms of the organization. There was a great deal discussed on the day of the meeting. The day before, I was able to spend some time on the base speaking with CAF members of all ranks, and I heard some of the challenges. Health care kept coming up over and over again.

The theme for last week's meetings was child care and spousal employment and the challenges associated with that. It was important for me during that meeting to bring up the issues of health care. We were very excited and proud of the fact we were able to get the 90-day wait period for health cards wiped out across the country. That was a big step, but the message I got on the base was, “Great, we have a piece of plastic. We can't use it.”

Can you speak to some of the conversations we had at Seamless, some of the provinces that came forward in that incredible discussion around health care and some of the things they're hoping to be able to do at the provincial level?

[Laurie Ogilvie]

Absolutely. Thank you.

Again, I'll go back to the fact that the biggest challenge with health care right now is a lack of doctors in the communities and, more importantly, in the communities where military families are located. In Fredericton specifically around Gagetown, there is a lack of doctors, which is what is complicating access to medical care. It was very encouraging at Seamless Canada, the discussions around what the provinces and territories can do to be able to increase interest in physicians being in particular communities and supporting Canadian Armed Forces families.

One of the pieces—and I'll talk a little bit about it—is around the different pieces we're trying to do on educating family physicians on the unique needs of military families. We have a family physician guide that has been created and is with the College of Family Physicians, so the physicians themselves are getting education so they understand the need to support military families.

Wait-lists are another concern around getting in to family doctors. Some of the discussions that have happened at Seamless Canada, and I hope continue, are around protecting certain portions of the physician spaces to go to military families.

[Bryan May, Liberal, Cambridge, ON]

How much time do I have, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

You have 40 seconds.

[Bryan May, Liberal, Cambridge, ON]

I'll be very quick then, Mr. Chair.

One of the conversations I had was with one of the CAF members who was actually our driver around the base. She was originally from Fredericton and when she was posted in Borden, Ontario, she kept her family doctor in Fredericton because she couldn't find one in Ontario to accept her. Whenever they had issues, they literally went back to Fredericton.

This is a very common occurrence. On base, this is known by CAF members. You can look at the Reddit lines in terms of where good postings are for doctors and specific therapeutic care. I think we should really pay attention to working with the provinces to figure out ways to solve these issues.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you, Mr. May. That's certainly well worth noting.

Mr. Desilets.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Ms. Hicks, last Tuesday, our committee learned that the only action taken on the Arbour Report’s recommendations was to change the name from “Sexual Misconduct Intervention Centre” to “Sexual Misconduct Support and Resource Centre.”

How do you explain this?

[Jane Hicks, Acting Director General, Service Delivery and Program Management, Department of Veterans Affairs]

Steven, do you want to respond to that?

[Steven Harris]

I may be in a better position to answer that question.

I can’t speak for the Canadian Armed Forces when it comes to implementing recommendations related to their programs.

I can say, however, that at Veterans Affairs Canada, we are working closely with the Canadian Armed Forces and National Defence to support all recommendations and to help veterans who have unfortunately been victims of sexual misconduct.

We ensure that our department’s programs are well presented in all requests from the Canadian Armed Forces so that we can support them in implementing the recommendations that affect them.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you, Mr. Desilets.

Ms. Mathyssen, you have one minute and a half.

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Just quickly, Ms. Ogilvie, you had mentioned that your website was entirely up to date. However, there are actually postings that are currently at minimum wage in Ontario. I would hope that you would check that and make sure that it's addressed.

I will go back to VAC with my other question. In terms of that $570-million contract of Loblaw, one of the key points that they made in this article from the Renfrew County folks was that there's an overall lack of program transparency, increased distress for veterans, duplication of interviews and the fact that many veterans, because of the frustrations that they already feel, which is then increased, have actually walked from service. Because of the money that's being referred and put online, put to these telemedicine opportunities and contracts, private contracts, they are unable to help clinicians who meet the standards for licensing, specifically with veterans' service problems.

Could you address that, please?

[Steven Harris]

Here, I might ask Jane to jump in for a short answer, please.

[Jane Hicks]

Certainly. There are significant efforts happening right now to work with our partners in Canadian veteran rehab services, PCVRS, to meet the needs of veterans. There are holistic assessments, which is a more integrated approach. We've been working with providers across the country and case managers. Where we're aware of issues, we've been working closely with providers and contractors and clients to address those in a timely manner.