Evidence of meeting #17 for Natural Resources in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was market.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

Members speaking

Before the committee

Cape  Chief Executive Officer, Assembly Corporation
Yurkovich  President and Chief Executive Officer, Canfor Corporation
Hughes  President, Hupaco Wood Products
Power  Managing Director, PowerWood Corporation
Luckert  Professor Emeritus, Forest Economics and Policy, University of Alberta
Bromley  Chair, Wood Council, United Steelworkers

The Chair Liberal Terry Duguid

I call the meeting to order.

We'll start, as we always do, by acknowledging that we are on the unceded territory of the Algonquin Anishinabe nation.

We have some new members joining us today.

Ms. Konanz, it's nice to see you. Welcome. This is a very agreeable committee most of the time. We have our moments.

Mr. Noormohamed, welcome.

We also have Mr. Rowe. He's kind of a regular. We consider him one of us now.

Welcome to meeting number 17 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Natural Resources. This meeting is taking place in a hybrid format, pursuant to the Standing Orders.

Let me make a few comments for the benefit of the witnesses, most of whom are joining us on Zoom. For those participating by video conference, click on the microphone icon to activate your mic, and please mute yourself when you are not speaking. Also, at the bottom of your screen, you can select the appropriate channel for interpretation: floor, English or French.

This is a reminder that all comments should be addressed through the chair. Remember our amazing interpreters, who do such a great job. Don't speak too fast, and certainly don't bang around your microphones. Thank you so much for that.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motion adopted by the committee on Thursday, September 18, 2025, the committee is resuming its study of the forestry industry.

I'd like to welcome our witnesses. On Zoom, from the Assembly Corporation, we have Geoff Cape, chief executive officer. Also on Zoom, we have Susan Yurkovich, president and chief executive officer of the Canfor Corporation. In the room, we have Scott Hughes, president of Hupaco Wood Products.

Thank you all for appearing today. We will begin with opening remarks. You will each have five minutes or less.

Mr. Cape, we're going to start with you. You have the floor.

Geoff Cape Chief Executive Officer, Assembly Corporation

Thank you, Chair and committee members, for the opportunity to address this urgent issue: the future of Canada's forest industry and the critical role wood-based manufactured housing can have.

My name is Geoff Cape. I'm the CEO of Assembly Corp., a Canadian company that's been around for seven years and that designs and fabricates wood buildings. The products we build are closely linked to sawmills and secondary wood manufacturers, allowing us to translate Canadian lumber into high-performance housing systems.

Recently, Assembly participated in a tour of Swedish factories with the Canadian Wood Council. Through that experience, we learned a series of lessons related to how several new federal strategies in Canada—budget 2025, Build Canada Homes and the buy Canadian policy, together with the federal softwood lumber transformation and tariff response packages—can participate in solving some of our challenges.

First, on the development of new value-added wood products and market diversification, the Swedish experience shows that success comes not only from advanced technologies but also from a confidence in factory-based housing built through policy and customer experience. Factory-built houses are regarded as a higher-quality product in Sweden, as they are in many northern European countries. Canada is creating similar strategies and has committed $2.2 billion to help transform the softwood lumber industry in this regard.

Second is the importance of wood for housing and carbon neutrality. The recently launched Build Canada Homes program is mandated to scale modern methods of construction, including factory-built wood systems for housing. It's expected to generate hundreds of millions of dollars in new annual demand for Canadian wood products as it deploys its initial $13-billion investment. The softwood transformation agenda should be fully integrated with this plan.

Third, regarding public procurement, Canada must move from short-term programs to a platform for industrialized construction and economic development. The Build Canada Homes program will prioritize multi-year, shovel-ready housing projects that use Canadian wood and the buy Canadian policy framework to require federal contracts to prioritize Canadian materials, including lumber.

To make this real, I believe the procurement needs to commit to multi-year pipelines of manufactured housing projects to help incentivize the capitalization of factory programs. It needs to create a strategic industrialization fund with federal loan guarantees to de-risk private investment. I'm aware that BDC is considering this, but within the ISED family there are other channels at Industry Canada to support this industry strategy. It also has to reform RFPs and payment terms, the contract structures for these suppliers, so that they can get paid a meaningful share during the manufacturing process and not just on the delivery of housing. There is a series of policy initiatives that need to be made to help facilitate this industry's growth.

On the forest management issue and the notion of vertical integration, Canada has begun to pivot from raw log exports to a forest-to-factory-to-housing model. The federal softwood package includes loan guarantees and funding to incentivize and increase domestic processing, including support for indigenous forestry businesses and an opportunity to diversify products and markets, all of which should be linked to housing demand.

Respecting the provincial and territorial jurisdictions, I think the next big step is to harmonize codes and help fast-track approvals for certified factories using tools like CSA A277. By pairing digital permitting and pre-approved designs, Canada can reduce interprovincial barriers and allow factory-approved wood housing to move more rapidly across jurisdictions.

Finally, on the need for training in the workforce, the sector needs targeted investments in training for off-site construction, industrialized design and logistics. Federal workforce and transition programs, along with budget 2025's skills investment, can be directed towards regional manufacturing hubs and high-profile projects to build skilled employment.

I'll end with this view. The effects on the Canadian lumber industry could be enormous. Federal policies such as those under the Build Canada Homes initiative emphasize certified Canadian wood systems. If this becomes the norm, I'll begin with the negative and end with the positive.

The lumber industry could—and this is the negative—see a decrease of 20% to 30% in per unit use of wood due to the efficient use of wood-engineered products and the optimization of material, but over the next five to 10 years the mass timber market should grow by well in excess of a billion dollars and, in the process, help cut embodied carbon by 40% and—

The Chair Liberal Terry Duguid

Thank you for ending on that positive note.

3:35 p.m.

Chief Executive Officer, Assembly Corporation

Geoff Cape

That's always good.

The Chair Liberal Terry Duguid

Thank you, Mr. Cape.

Now we're going to Ms. Yurkovich for five minutes or less.

Susan Yurkovich President and Chief Executive Officer, Canfor Corporation

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair and members of the committee. I appreciate the opportunity to share some views on behalf of Canfor, as part of your study.

After looking at your record, I know you've heard from a number of people about the importance of forestry to the Canadian economy. There are 200,000 direct jobs that the sector supports, and families and communities across our country make a living and have a good life through the forest products industry. I think you've also heard about the critical importance of securing a trade agreement with the U.S. so that Canadian producers can fairly access our largest market. I share these views and would like to complement them with a few thoughts from Canfor's perspective.

Canadian Forest Products, or Canfor, is proudly headquartered in Vancouver, B.C. Our company started out as a single, family-owned sawmill on the banks of the Fraser River in the 1930s, initially employing about 28 people. Now, nearly nine decades later, Canfor has grown into one of Canada's largest diversified forest products companies, employing 2,700 people in Canada and operating globally, including facilities in the U.S. south and in Sweden. In B.C. and Alberta, our operations include eight sawmills, two pulp mills, specialty paper and lumber facilities, a tree nursery and a green energy plant.

Success in our sector depends on two critical things: secure, predictable access to sustainably grown timber; and secure, reliable access to markets, most notably the U.S., which is our largest trading partner.

For decades, however, our sector has faced unfair duties that harm both Canadian workers and U.S. consumers. As a mandatory respondent in the seemingly endless rounds of softwood lumber disputes, our company has spent thousands of hours and millions of dollars on litigation. We are one of the largest duty payers, having paid cash deposits now totalling more than $1 billion since 2016, and with our combined duty rate now at 57.6%, we expect to pay more than $100 million again in 2026.

Without question, this is placing a tremendous financial burden on our company and on companies across the country. We acknowledge and appreciate the significant efforts of the Government of Canada and the embassy in Washington to advance our interests with the administration and to work towards a new agreement. We also recognize the challenges involved in getting to the negotiating table. We know that U.S. protectionism on softwood is a bipartisan issue, and we have faced duties with both Republican and Democratic administrations alike.

To mitigate the impacts of U.S. duties and tariffs, we are focused on things that we can control: deriving more value from our operations, controlling costs, operating safely and exploring ways to retool some of our Canadian operations to create higher-value products for customers here and around the world. While we are controlling what we can, we also believe there are actions that the government can take to support companies in the near term. We offer the five following recommendations.

First, we appreciate the loan programs introduced by the federal government to support liquidity, including measures to aid workers. [Technical difficulty—Editor] meaningful and easy to access, and they must provide immediate relief.

Second, as we assess the potential investments in our Canadian operations that could further diversify products and markets, federal support could be instrumental in making this possible. Establishing a federal capital investment fund could expedite projects to retool facilities to create higher-value-added products and to expand into markets that are not subject to duties and tariffs. We're assessing potential investments in both our B.C. and our Alberta operations that could benefit from such a fund, and we would welcome the opportunity to discuss how a program like this could be structured.

Third, as a market leader in exports to Asia and as a company that operates in Canada, the U.S. and Europe, our team has a strong understanding of global opportunities for Canadian wood products. We support intensified overseas marketing and diversification efforts across all industries, including forestry, and we believe that restoring meaningful funding for market expansion initiatives is required to support this effort. We would also encourage the inclusion of the forest sector in any future team Canada trade missions.

Fourth, as government works to streamline approvals for major nation-building projects, we'd urge a similar approach for all industries working on the land base. We note the announcement of a new task force for the forest sector, which represents an opportunity to assess cost competitiveness, productivity, the regulatory burden and streamlined permitting, both federally and provincially. We'd be happy to contribute to this work, but we are mindful of the need for urgency. This work must yield outcomes and not simply be more thought and study.

Finally, the Canada Revenue Agency could help our sector by expediting corporate tax refunds for the 2024 tax year. Canfor filed its return in June 2025 and is still awaiting a refund. Issuing refunds as early as possible would provide immediate liquidity that could help us pay the significant duty obligations we face today and in the months ahead.

Thanks for the opportunity to present, and I look forward to your questions.

The Chair Liberal Terry Duguid

Thank you so much, Ms. Yurkovich.

Now we're going to Mr. Hughes. You have the floor.

Scott Hughes President, Hupaco Wood Products

Thank you, Mr. Chair, honourable members and colleagues from across the forestry value chain, for the opportunity to speak today.

My name is Scott Hughes, and I'm a second-generation owner of Hupaco Wood Products Limited.

Canada's forestry sector employs 600,000 direct and indirect jobs, and it is the economic backbone of nearly 300 communities, yet we are losing ground in global markets. If we want a strong, sustainable industry today and beyond, we must act decisively on six fronts.

The first is countervailing and anti-dumping duties. The United States has imposed duties averaging over 20% on Canadian software lumber for decades. With the latest round, I thought it was 35%, but I was corrected. It's now 57.6%. These duties have already cost our industry more than $7 billion since 2017 alone. Raised housing costs in the United States shrink our market share and force more containments and permanent closures from British Columbia to Atlantic Canada.

This is the longest-running trade dispute in North American history. Over 40 years and five failed trade wars, Canada has won the legal argument at least 15 times at NAFTA, CUSMA and World Trade Organization panels, yet every time we win, the U.S. lobby restarts the clock. We must keep fighting legally, but we must also negotiate a long-term managed trade agreement that finally ends this cycle. Anything less is surrender.

The second is the federal government's role in market diversification and value-added production. Yes, we must diversify to Europe, Japan, South Korea, India and the Middle East, but let's be crystal clear: We cannot simply switch markets and walk away from the United States. The United States takes 77.5% of everything we cut. No other market or combination of markets can absorb that volume in the next five, 10 or even 15 years. Mills will close, towns will hollow out and thousands of families will lose their livelihoods long before new export corridors materialize.

Retooling a single mid-size sawmill to produce European spec lumber and pallets costs $50 million to $100 million and takes 18 to 24 months. That is money and time that many producers do not have when duties are eating at their cash flow. Meanwhile, Brazil is already shipping European pine and pallets into the European Union at a cost 20% to 30% lower than ours.

Diversification is not life support; it's a long-term growth strategy. In the short and medium term, our survival still depends on regaining full, duty-free access to the American market. This is why aggressive negotiations with Washington must remain job one. Everything else—value-added funds, trade missions and retooling grants—is vital, but it buys us time; it does not buy us survival.

The third is the unique importance of wooden houses and carbon neutrality. For over 20 years, I have worked hand in hand with architects and engineers across Ontario, designing roof trusses and floor systems for single-family homes, townhouses and low-rise buildings. My job is to squeeze every last square foot out of a load of lumber so that families can afford a safe, high-quality home.

I know first-hand that wood is the most versatile, cost-effective and climate-friendly building material we have. A typical 2,000-square-foot family home built with Canadian lumber stores about 30 tonnes of carbon dioxide. A 20-storey mass timber tower sequesters about 3,500 tonnes, which is the same as taking 900 cars off the road for a year. If we simply raise the share of wood-framed, single-family homes, mid-rise and tall wood buildings from roughly 12% today to 30% by 2035, we will cut millions of tonnes of emissions, while creating tens of thousands of rural jobs.

Right now, our home builders are the single largest consumer of Canadian dimension lumber, after pallets and crates, and they are being strangled by red tape. We cannot hit our housing targets or climate targets unless we fast-track builders who choose wood. Give them presumptive approval for proven systems and stop treating renewable Canadian lumber as if it was a problem, instead of a solution.

The fourth is a national public procurement policy that favours wood. A simple “wood first” policy for federally funded buildings will create stable domestic demand and show real leadership on climate and jobs.

The fifth is sustainable forest management practices. Canadian forests are among the best managed on earth. Over 90% of harvested areas are promptly regenerated, and over 160 million hectares are third party certified. Good management keeps the forests healthy in a changing climate. We need to tell that story loudly and proudly.

The sixth, finally, is to respect provincial and territorial jurisdictions. Forests are constitutionally provincial. Ottawa sets national goals and provides funding and coordination, never micromanagement. Real progress only happens when we work with true partners.

In closing, we stand at a crossroads. We can keep bleeding jobs while we wait for new markets that will take a generation to build, or we can fight like hell to keep the U.S. market open, while we diversify, innovate and build more Canadian homes, pallets, wood packaging and other wood products with Canadian wood. The choice is ours and the time is now.

Thank you.

The Chair Liberal Terry Duguid

Thank you, Mr. Hughes.

Thank you to all our presenters.

We'll start our rounds of questions with Mr. Tochor.

Mr. Tochor, you have six minutes.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Corey Tochor Conservative Saskatoon—University, SK

Thank you to our witnesses for being here today.

Mr. Cape, I understand you're Zooming in. Are you at home, by chance, or at the office?

3:50 p.m.

Chief Executive Officer, Assembly Corporation

Geoff Cape

I'm at home.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Corey Tochor Conservative Saskatoon—University, SK

Do you live in one of those prefab factory homes?

3:50 p.m.

Chief Executive Officer, Assembly Corporation

Geoff Cape

No. we're not there yet.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Corey Tochor Conservative Saskatoon—University, SK

That's okay. Many Canadians don't. As much as the Brookfield model and the business they're trying to push is popular with some people, most Canadians have concerns.

Ms. Yurkovich, I understand it took decades to build your company, a family-owned business in British Columbia. Could you characterize what the last 10 years have been like for families who are employed with your company?

3:50 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Canfor Corporation

Susan Yurkovich

It's challenging to be working in the forest sector. It's a very competitive business, as you know. Of course, we've had periods of managed trade and we've had very few moments of free trade. Mostly, we've been operating under a tariff regime, which makes it extremely challenging. It requires our companies to be extremely cost-focused and to try to remain competitive in order to serve our customers and continue to compete in the global space. It's meant—

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Corey Tochor Conservative Saskatoon—University, SK

For the last 10 years, have there been that many raises for the workers?

3:50 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Canfor Corporation

Susan Yurkovich

We try to keep pace with the market so, yes, we've had adjustments. We continue to employ highly skilled workers and we pay them fairly, but we have fewer workers in Canada, for sure, because of the challenges of operating here.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Corey Tochor Conservative Saskatoon—University, SK

You said, “decades”. Let's do a comparison with the decade prior, so before 2015. What was that decade like? You did reference decades. Was that a better decade?

3:50 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Canfor Corporation

Susan Yurkovich

In British Columbia, where we have been traditionally—it's where we started our business and where the heart of our business has been for many generations—we have, of course, experienced a very significant shift in the availability of fibre, mostly because of the mountain pine beetle epidemic, followed by a very difficult fire season. The cut has come down substantially in the province of British Columbia.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Corey Tochor Conservative Saskatoon—University, SK

Comparing those two decades, are you saying that the last 10 years have been better than those Conservative government years that had tariff peace with the States, and especially the softwood lumber deal?

3:50 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Canfor Corporation

Susan Yurkovich

We had very good years during COVID. Everyone knows that. We had a black swan event where we had very strong lumber markets that would have been unseen in the industry, ever. We'd never seen prices that high.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Corey Tochor Conservative Saskatoon—University, SK

Just talking a little bit about the American negotiations, you said we had trouble negotiating a deal, which I believe you called non-partisan, with both Republicans and Democrats. That was under past prime minister Justin Trudeau. Mark Carney hasn't been able to get a deal under either one. Is that correct?

3:50 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Canfor Corporation

Susan Yurkovich

The last softwood lumber agreement we had was done under Prime Minister Harper.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Corey Tochor Conservative Saskatoon—University, SK

What year was that?

3:50 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Canfor Corporation

Susan Yurkovich

It ran from 2006 to 2015. Then there was a standstill period for one year. This latest round—“lumber five”, we affectionately call it—started in 2017.