Natural Resources Committee on Dec. 1st, 2025

[Claude Guay, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard—Verdun, QC]

Mrs. Yurkovich, another measure that was put in place was $500 million allocated for the next fiscal year for programs to help with transformation, buying new equipment, new products and training employees. Is that something you've looked into or started to inquire about?

[Susan Yurkovich]

Yes, we saw the announcement and, of course, it's relatively new. We're looking for details on all of the things that were recently announced, including the ones that I think were announced last week or 10 days ago—all the days blend together—around transportation and the availability of those kinds of programs. We are looking for details, and I expect we will hear more from the line ministries in the next few weeks. Obviously, those are things we would be interested in.

[Claude Guay, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard—Verdun, QC]

I'm curious. Mr. Cape mentioned his trip to Sweden in terms of learning, but you actually operate in Sweden. What can we learn from that market?

[Susan Yurkovich]

We've expanded. We moved into Sweden in about 2019 and, if you're a global company, you want to continue to serve your customers. As your customers are big and global, you want to be able to have the products to be able to serve them.

I would say that there are quite a few things that are different about Sweden. Where it's located is one. It has access to many markets. Obviously, freight and logistics are a big thing when you are producing a product like ours. You're shipping it a long way. If you're shipping it to Europe, they have access to many markets, whether they're in the European Union, the U.K., the Middle East, north Africa or even into the U.S. east coast.

They have a lot more market diversity. They also have highly specialized products that are sort of country-specific, so we have more product diversification there. We have very good and secure fibre there as well.

[Claude Guay, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard—Verdun, QC]

Thank you.

Mr. Cape, I'm coming back to you.

You talked about training the workforce as an important topic for you. Do you mean for tradespeople? In the budget, there is quite a bit of money for the different trades organizations. Are we talking electricians, plumbers or in general? What are we talking about here? Do you think you can take advantage of that?

[Geoff Cape]

I know we can take advantage of it, and we've had a number of discussions with the various trade unions in the Ontario area to understand what they think needs to happen. These are both skilled and unskilled trade interests.

The carpenters union alone is a useful partner in all of this work. The production of off-site housing is a different way of building, and there's a transitional process required there, but it's a manageable process and one that shouldn't take too long. It creates a safer, more predictable employment opportunity with fewer risks for life safety and job security. It's a worthwhile endeavour to engage in this training program.

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Duguid]

Thank you.

We're going to Mr. Simard.

Mr. Simard, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Mario Simard, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Cape, in your opening remarks, you talked about your company's prefabrication activity. You also talked about the fact that the government was going to roll out a big program called “Build Canada Homes” or “Homes Canada”—I don't know what to call it anymore.

We looked at the government's proposal concerning the liquidity program, which had encountered a few hiccups. On receiving feedback, however, it seems that access to the program became easier because the criteria were reviewed.

Before the much-touted Build Canada Homes program was rolled out, did the government consult people like you? Have you had any discussions with the department? Since you operate in the prefabrication field, I suppose the government should hear your proposals before rolling out measures like these.

[Geoff Cape]

Yes, we were openly invited to participate with a series of consultations, but we also took the initiative to organize a group of about 106 companies from across Canada related to the supply chain associated with prefabricated housing. Those 106 companies organized and designed, over a three- to four-month period, a series of 19 recommendations for short-term recommendations and 17 long-term recommendations. They were addressed comprehensively in the policy put forward in the budget.

[Mario Simard, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

Can you tell the committee the names of those companies and the short and long-term recommendations that you've made? Can you give us an idea of the key recommendations?

[Geoff Cape]

I would be happy to supply that. Some of the simple recommendations were related to procurement, which was to mandate the requirement or make “wood first” a priority in procurement.

Another would be to align policies across the country and across different political jurisdictions—municipal, provincial and federal—to enable faster approval processes.

A third was to create not just market pull through procurement but also market push to incentivize the federal government through BDC to invest in building the industry with an economic development agenda.

[Mario Simard, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

It's important that you send the committee these various recommendations, to include them in the final report.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Duguid]

Thank you, Mr. Simard.

Mr. Rowe, you have five minutes.

[Jonathan Rowe, Conservative, Terra Nova—The Peninsulas, NL]

All right. Thank you very much.

My first question is for Mr. Hughes.

Last week, our witness explained the uncertainty in the industry. He said the uncertainty was so bad that he'd rather have a bad deal now than a good deal later. What are the struggles in your industry that come from the uncertainty for investors and whatnot, and how urgent is it to get a deal?

[Scott Hughes]

I'm not exactly saying to take a bad deal as opposed to a good deal. What I'm saying is that I don't think there's enough effort on the part of the Canadian representatives in negotiating with Washington.

[Jonathan Rowe, Conservative, Terra Nova—The Peninsulas, NL]

The message we heard was that we were going to be building things and moving at speeds we've never seen before. It must have been very disappointing to hear the Prime Minister say, “Who cares? I mean, it's a detail. I spoke to him. I'll speak to him again when it matters”, when we're talking about trade deals.

Do those kinds of statements build trust and certainty for investors in Canada as well?

[Scott Hughes]

I decided a long time ago not to put a lot of faith in politicians' promises. Although it was nice to hear, I knew it was not going to be possible at the speeds he was promising. It was unrealistic.

I know that negotiating with the Trump administration is going to be tough, but they're businessmen. As businessmen are well aware, you have to pull up your pants, discuss it and come up with a solution that works for both parties. Sometimes it means a great deal. Sometimes it means a deal that's not so good. Sometimes it's going to be a bad deal.

[Jonathan Rowe, Conservative, Terra Nova—The Peninsulas, NL]

You talk about making a deal and getting to that point, and you mentioned that we've typically won in these court cases we've had in the past with the Americans.

Do companies like yours get reimbursed for the struggles they went through, or are they left to have to deal with it on their own? Is the damage already done?

[Scott Hughes]

My industry does not ship directly to the United States. We don't deal with the United States. We deal with other manufacturers that put their products in my wood packaging and ship them to the United States.

The taxes or the duties don't really impact us. They impact our customers, which in turn results in lower orders.

[Jonathan Rowe, Conservative, Terra Nova—The Peninsulas, NL]

You're left out in the cold, as some may say. It's very tough to get that....

You talked about diverting to Europe and the struggles with that, but you also mentioned—feel free to build on this—that Brazil is selling to the EU for 20% to 30% less. Why is that? How is it able to do that in this market?

[Scott Hughes]

Brazil is able to do it because it started producing European-spec lumber many years ago. Brazil's biggest market is the European Union. Canada's biggest market is the United States. They're two completely different markets that we're dealing with. For us to pivot, it's going to take time and it's going to take a lot of money and effort.

[Jonathan Rowe, Conservative, Terra Nova—The Peninsulas, NL]

Do you think having a lot of regulations—all of the red tape that we have and the industrial carbon tax for harvesting the wood products—plays into it, or is it mostly just that they've been ahead of the game?

[Scott Hughes]

I believe it does.

[Jonathan Rowe, Conservative, Terra Nova—The Peninsulas, NL]

I have one last question for you. The Conservatives have been very adamant that we can improve the environment and reduce carbon emissions at the same time, while supporting industry—especially the forestry industry. Last week, a Liberal MP who is on this committee—I won't say his name out of respect—chuckled and alluded to our Conservative idea of increasing forestry to improve the environment as being silly.

You mentioned carbon capture in your presentation and the potential of helping the environment through proper forest management. I'm wondering if you could set the record straight and talk more about how proper forest management can help our environment and reduce CO2 emissions to help climate change.

[Scott Hughes]

Canada sits on one of the largest forests in the world. We had a very good program managing our forestry. The association it belonged to has fought many battles over the years related to people who did not think that using trees was very smart. I don't know if you remember that many years ago, we were dealing with an issue with the spotted owl, which basically caused lumber production to slow down considerably because people were worried about the dangers.

Now it's been proven that the forestry industry is actually very good for the country. The more we cut down, the more we grow and the better it is in terms of carbon storage and environmental issues, but the forestry industry has to be on the ball. We have to maintain these forests properly and we have to ensure that fires are minimized as much as possible.

Through some of the information that was gathered, we've heard that more than 50% of the forest fires were started by arson. Whether that's true, I don't know, but it's a very disturbing number.