Evidence of meeting #17 for Natural Resources in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was market.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Professor Emeritus, Forest Economics and Policy, University of Alberta
I'm not sure exactly what you mean by mulching and forest management, but if you mean grinding up residue from a harvest to go back into the forest floor, that's very ecosystem-specific, as I understand it.
For example, here in Alberta, most of that is piled and burnt, as I was just explaining, because mulching isn't as good for that type of ecosystem where they're growing aspen. I'm not an expert in silvicultural practices, but it depends very specifically on the type of forest you're talking about, what you're trying to grow there and which resources you're trying to promote.
Liberal
Claude Guay Liberal LaSalle—Émard—Verdun, QC
I have a quick question for Mr. Bromley.
You mentioned that 11,000 people who are part of your union are indigenous. Did I understand that correctly? Is there any example or model you've seen of partnership and ownership with them that you're aware of?
Chair, Wood Council, United Steelworkers
Of the 220,000 people who make their living in the industry, 11,000 are indigenous. It's not of the 14,000 members of mine. As for partnerships, there are a lot of them. We could spend a lot of time. The Meadow Lake first nations in Saskatchewan and, out on Vancouver Island, on the coast, the Huu-ay-aht First Nations all have partnerships within harvesting. Meadow Lake actually has a wholly owned sawmill. There are a lot of examples we could use.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Terry Duguid
Thank you both.
Mr. Simard, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.
Bloc
Mario Simard Bloc Jonquière, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Power, in your opening remarks, you talked about the labour challenges you're facing, in other words, the lack of predictability. I was wondering whether you use temporary foreign workers in your operations.
Bloc
Mario Simard Bloc Jonquière, QC
Your labour problems relate to difficulty in retaining people in your industries. Is that correct?
Managing Director, PowerWood Corporation
It's not difficult to keep people. Actually, we have an excellent track record for retention. The challenge we have is with attendance, and the rates of attendance have shifted dramatically in the last five years.
Bloc
Mario Simard Bloc Jonquière, QC
Thank you, Mr. Power.
Mr. Bromley, many temporary layoffs are currently under way at a number of Quebec sawmills and pulp and paper plants.
For a lot of people, employment insurance is the best program for workers temporarily laid off. Some people have floated the idea of a program comparable to what we saw during the pandemic, a program like the emergency wage subsidy. It would keep people employed during these kinds of transition periods.
Do you support that? In your opinion, is this a possible solution that deserves to be studied, considering the crisis currently confronting the forestry sector?
Chair, Wood Council, United Steelworkers
I certainly do. In terms of EI supports right now, the maximum EI that someone can take home as 55% of their income.... As of January 1, it will be about $730 per week. For those jobs across the nation, the unionized jobs I represent—and probably others—that's about 40% to 45% of their income. When a member or a worker has to access those EI programs, it's a big hit to their weekly income, so I certainly would support an initiative such as that.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Terry Duguid
Thank you, both.
Our last questions go to Mr. Rowe and Mr. Danko.
You have two minutes each. I'm going to wrap you up after two minutes.
Conservative
Jonathan Rowe Conservative Terra Nova—The Peninsulas, NL
I had my time cut down a little bit, so I'm going to ask the big question, the one of life or death.
Mr. Bromley, I believe you said that 15 operations closed in Canada. That surprised me. Where are those jobs going? What other countries are they going to? We heard from our last witness that a lot of stuff is coming from Brazil and other countries. My father is part of Carpenters Union Local 579, and I've worked alongside many unionized trade workers. There's a high level of safety in the workplace and a high level of workplace harassment prevention amongst unions—second to none in Canada and throughout the world. It's so much so that I'm a firm believer that Canada has some of the safest working conditions in the world, whether they be through policies that unions have or also through the regulations the government has.
Would you like to share the benefits of having wood products that come from Canada, where there are much safer regulations—more than any other country—which we may not see in other places?
Chair, Wood Council, United Steelworkers
Well, there's the economic benefit. The quality of the fibre in Canada, I believe, is bar none. If you do a direct comparison with southern yellow pine in the United States, which competes with Canadian softwood products.... If you ask anybody who's building a house or any type of structure, they'll want to use our products. They're in demand.
In terms of safety in the workplace, that's something that's near and dear to my heart. I've negotiated safety language. We monitor it closely, and we try to make our workplaces the safest in the jurisdiction.
Just with regard to your earlier question, those 15 facilities were in northern B.C. alone, not across Canada. I could add on more, but those were in northern B.C.
Conservative
Jonathan Rowe Conservative Terra Nova—The Peninsulas, NL
Wow, that's a lot.
I think in our lumber and across our industries there's a lot less blood than we see in other countries.
My next question is for Mr. Power.
You mentioned that we sell raw product to other countries, and then they sell it to the U.S. and other markets, competing against our own companies and causing economic drain. Is there a larger markup on the manufacturing side—rather than the raw economics—and are we losing more jobs in that industry? I've been told that we've lost 6,000 jobs since 2014, and 30% of those have been in the past six months. That's 2,000 in the past six months.
Is a big part of the jobs we're losing and the investment leaving from Canada in secondary manufacturing?
Managing Director, PowerWood Corporation
Yes, absolutely. When you sell the raw product without doing the manufacturing, you're losing all of those jobs. We had an export tax added in B.C. to stop the raw material of certain products in 2021, and my company has been able to hire 40 people since then, all in secondary manufacturing.
Liberal
Liberal
John-Paul Danko Liberal Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON
Thank you, Chair.
Of course, the softwood lumber dispute has been a 40-year conflict with successive governments—both Liberal and Conservative, to their credit—addressing this issue, winning trade disputes at the tribunal level and refusing to capitulate to the U.S.
In the current context, $500 million in financing and credit supports for the softwood lumber industry was just announced, as well as a 50% cut to rail transportation costs, combined with the government's buy Canadian policies, infrastructure spending and housing spending, that is creating a truly Canadian market for Canadian forestry products.
In the time I have left, I would ask—maybe starting with Professor Luckert—if there are any areas of optimism that you see for the Canadian softwood lumber industry in the future.
Professor Emeritus, Forest Economics and Policy, University of Alberta
That's a tough one. When I look at the current trade environment we're facing, I put it at a bigger magnitude in terms of disruption than the COVID epidemic, because the COVID epidemic lasted two years or so and this one could last much longer. Even if Trump gets put down by the Supreme Court in terms of his trade decisions, there's a long history of the ITC and ITA having political influence anyway.
You talked about our “winning” over the past four decades. I'm not so sure we were winning. We weren't losing as badly as we're losing right now with the current tariffs, but we have been paying tariffs for a very long time. We have lost decisions with the ITC and the ITA, even when NAFTA and GATT gave us the thumbs-up. It's been a prickly process.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Terry Duguid
I'll allow a quick response from the other two, if you wish.
Mr. Bromley.
Chair, Wood Council, United Steelworkers
In terms of fairness and in terms of the market, Canada traditionally has had about 30% of the U.S. market for those products. It has now dwindled to about 23%. That's 7% of demand in the U.S. market that is still there. It's being filled largely from the European Union, which enters the market almost tariff-free.
Managing Director, PowerWood Corporation
Yes. I think Mr. Luckert put a good nail on the reason not to have optimism in the near term. If you zoom out over decades, we have some of the best forest-growing conditions on the planet. We have, as Mr. Bromley alluded, some of the safest and highest standards of workplaces on the planet. We have a country that people all around the world want to deal with. We have a lot going for us, but if you zoom in on the current decade, I don't see a lot of reason for optimism, absent a trade deal.