Official Languages Committee on Jan. 29th, 2008

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

One would therefore imagine that the new one would start at the beginning of April to avoid a gap between the two.

[Bruce Manion]

Indeed. The first action plan did however provide for repeat funding of certain activities and so there will not be a period of absolute non-activity. A large number of programs stemming from the plan have been awarded funding beyond the life of the plan.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you. We will now go to the Bloc Québécois.

Mr. Nadeau, you have the floor.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I would like to begin by greeting my colleagues, Mr. Petit and Mr. Chong, as I did not have an opportunity to do so earlier.

Mr. Moisan, Mr. Manion and Mr. Lussier, good morning. Oversight powers exist to ensure that the official languages situation can be improved and that your work can be continued in order to meet the very laudable objectives that have been set out with regard to fostering both official languages.

That being said, I read with interest the document that our researcher prepared for us. I am also fairly familiar with official languages issues myself. I have some questions, relating more to results than money. The Official Languages Act was enacted in 1969 and has since undergone a number of changes and developments, etc. The public service is very important not only to the Outaouais region, but everywhere in Canada where there are federal public servants. I have an idea for you. You do not need to give me a detailed response if it is something upon which you have not cogitated, but I would nonetheless like you to take it on board and discuss it with the minister.

Should we not adopt a rule requiring all federal employees to be bilingual when they apply for a position, rather than trying to make them bilingual within a certain timeframe after they have been hired by having them participate in training courses and programs which, as we have seen with the Canadian Forces and elsewhere, lead us inevitably to situations of utter absurdity? We have unilingual employees in bilingual positions and in positions where a knowledge of French is very important. Have you considered the possibility of requiring employees to be bilingual, be it to your CCC or CBC standard, or whatever standard you choose to use, before being appointed to certain positions?

[Bruce Manion]

In answer to your question, I should firstly point out that this matter falls under the purview of the commission.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

Which commission?

[Bruce Manion]

The Public Service Commission, the Canada Public Service Agency.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

You are saying that your mandate does not extend to such matters.

[Bruce Manion]

That is correct.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

So if a directive is issued, you make the appropriate adjustments, but if none is forthcoming, you do not necessarily act. Very well.

I will move on to another topic. There are many components to the program.

Let us talk about Montreal and the Pontiac. The Journal de Montréal, the Office de la langue française, and even Statistics Canada—I am not in the realm of the hypothetical here—have pointed out that French is becoming the minority language on Montreal island. The consensus is that French is the more vulnerable of our two official languages. It has unfortunately suffered the effects of assimilation, unlike English which, as we are in North America, enjoys a larger population and cultural base.

Would it be possible to include measures in the Action Plan for Official Languages to support francophone communities, such as those in Montreal island and the Pontiac, which are undergoing assimilation, and so attenuate the vulnerability of the French language?

[Hubert Lussier]

It is always somewhat perilous for an official to venture an opinion, Mr. Chairman. Nevertheless, I will attempt to address some of the issues raised by Mr. Nadeau.

With regard to French becoming the minority language on Montreal island, Statistics Canada reported—as the member well knows—that French-speakers with French as their mother tongue are becoming the minority group on Montreal island. Obviously, we could debate statistical definitions all day, but that is the category that is becoming a minority group. Nowadays, however, French is not the mother tongue of a significant number of French-speaking Quebeckers. If you take that into consideration, you obviously get a different figure. If you look at it from that angle, French is not becoming the minority language on Montreal island.

Your question was theoretical.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

Have you looked at the situation in the Pontiac?

[Hubert Lussier]

Honestly, I have not looked at it specifically. We also get this question regarding certain anglophones in New Brunswick, from the Acadian Peninsula, who say they are in a minority situation. I don't want to compare the situations, but the phenomenon of minorization of a group that, at the provincial level, is the majority, does indeed exist in the Pontiac and in northeast New Brunswick. I believe those are the only two places where the problem you are raising might exist.

In terms of assistance programs for official languages, it is important to point out that the ability of anglophone students in Quebec to learn French properly is one of the aspects that receives support. That is one of the areas that the Government of Quebec has focused on recently. They realized that it was necessary to better equip these students in French.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

The fact remains that this problem is unique and that it generates interest.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Your time is up, Mr. Nadeau.

You will have an opportunity to continue your questions on the next round.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

We will now go to Mr. Godin.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

And thank you to the witnesses who are with us this morning.

Earlier, you talked about the commission led by Bernard Lord. Consultations took place in secret, behind closed doors. Did you learn anything from the Lord commission that had not been disclosed in all of the reports, studies and meetings—which were public, in this case—undertaken by this committee, which involved all political parties, throughout Canada? Has something changed as regards respect for bilingualism in Canada and in the public service? Did someone wave a magic wand during these meetings that will now help the government think about the issue of respect for official languages in Canada?

[Bruce Manion]

I think that Mr. Lord was able to complete the reflection and bring to the table additional complementary contributions. They were able to validate certain findings and certain comments from other groups, communities, and committees, and from the Commissioner. It was really a matter of obtaining the views of other stakeholders who, in the past, were not necessarily involved in this reflection.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Could we have the list of the stakeholders who have never been consulted?

[Bruce Manion]

Yes, the list will be available. Of course, we will provide the list of people who have authorized the disclosure of their names.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

I thought the organizations were the same ones that we had met. I am eager to consult this list, to see if there are many groups on it, and to see if it was worthwhile paying for a contract to establish a new list of organizations that had reportedly been left out.

[Jérôme Moisan, Senior Director, Official Languages Secretariat, Department of Canadian Heritage]

Having accompanied Mr. Lord during all of the meetings, I can say that there were some groups that, at any rate, were unavoidable when we went to one place or another. So there was some overlap with groups that you had already met, and there were new groups. We can certainly give you the list of people who accepted to provide their names and who make up the vast majority of people whom we met with.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Can you explain something on page 5 of the report? The Action Plan for Official Languages began in 2003, if I understand correctly, but I have some questions about the main findings. One hundred and eighty-seven million dollars out of $751 million was spent. Will we get further explanations on that? We have also heard that one of the differences is that $50 million in additional funding was granted. But I do not see why $50 million was added when only $187 million out of a possible total of $751 million was spent. The money is there. It is fine and well to say that an additional $50 million is being spent, but was it spent? Were these amounts spent in the communities or were the figures just put there for political purposes and for the media, when nothing was done? Perhaps I am misreading the document.

[Bruce Manion]

I want to draw your attention to page 8 of the document. It shows that actual expenditures during the first two years were lower and that there was subsequently a rather substantial increase, reaching approximately $200 million per year. During the first two years, total expenditures reached $187 million, but during the next two years, at least $200 million was spent annually.