Evidence of meeting #21 for Official Languages in the 39th Parliament, 2nd session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was lemieux.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Bloc
Raymond Gravel Bloc Repentigny, QC
I understand the material is different because the courses are different. However, the individuals teaching at Saint-Jean speak French.
Director of Investigations, National Defence and Canadian Forces Ombudsman, Department of National Defence
At Saint-Jean, 70% of the recruits are anglophone. There is therefore a greater need for anglophone instructors than there is for francophone instructors. The recruits are for the most part anglophones and they all get their training at Saint-Jean.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Steven Blaney
Thank you very much, Mr. Egglefield.
We will now move to the last speaker for today.
Mr. Godin.
NDP
Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB
You said that the problem was less extensive at Saint-Jean. Do anglophones, who represent 70% of the recruits, have anglophone teachers at Saint-Jean?
Director of Investigations, National Defence and Canadian Forces Ombudsman, Department of National Defence
There are anglophone, bilingual and francophone instructors there.
Director of Investigations, National Defence and Canadian Forces Ombudsman, Department of National Defence
I cannot tell you exactly. It appears at first blush that the breakdown of anglophone, francophone and bilingual instructors is appropriate for meeting the training needs.
NDP
Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB
Mr. Chairman, I think there is a problem. Let's not fool ourselves. It is impossible for a bilingual instructor to provide a course to two groups of individuals speaking two different languages. I do not think that it is possible. That is why in Canada, we have francophone colleges and universities on the one hand, and anglophone colleges and universities on the other.
I think that is where the problem lies, whether it be in Borden, Gagetown, or the Marine Institute of Memorial University of Newfoundland. How can these individuals provide a course in French when they are all anglophones? If we want francophones to be trained in their own language, then we are going to have to add a francophone institution. That is the problem. We do not need to look elsewhere.
I have trouble accepting what Mr. Lemieux stated, that is that the problem is due to the fact that they are having trouble finding instructors who speak French. There are more than 9 million francophones in Canada, so do not try to make me believe that it is impossible to find a few instructors. I am not even going to say out loud what I am thinking. This makes no sense.
In the same vein, I would say that in this case National Defence does not respect both official languages of this country. I do not think this is a problem of money, but if it is, then these people should tell the government that they cannot cover the cost of two institutions.
It is all very well to say that the instructor speaks French and English, but how can he use a book and provide explanations to everyone at the same time in both languages? That is not done anywhere else. You stated clearly that at Saint-Jean, the courses that are offered are not the same as those in Borden. It is not surprising that the problem exists: in order to respect both official languages, this training has to be provided in two different institutions.
Would you agree with me?
Interim Ombudsman, National Defence and Canadian Forces Ombudsman, Department of National Defence
As Mr. Côté and myself have already stated, new military recruits should be able to obtain their training in the language of their choice.
NDP
Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB
Your role as Ombudsman is to make suggestions. So what do you suggest in order to make sure that this training is offered to military members in the language of their choice? My suggestion was that there be two institutions. What is yours?
Interim Ombudsman, National Defence and Canadian Forces Ombudsman, Department of National Defence
It is really up to the Department of National Defence to decide how...
NDP
Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB
I agree that it is up the department to decide, but your role consists in making recommendations.
Interim Ombudsman, National Defence and Canadian Forces Ombudsman, Department of National Defence
Yes, and we are recommending that recruits be able to receive their training in the language of their choice.
NDP
Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB
What do you suggest in order to make sure that marine technicians be provided with their training in French in Newfoundland?
Interim Ombudsman, National Defence and Canadian Forces Ombudsman, Department of National Defence
That course should be available for francophones as well.
NDP
Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB
Then National Defence is violating the Official Languages Act, given that in that area, no training is provided in French.
Interim Ombudsman, National Defence and Canadian Forces Ombudsman, Department of National Defence
I do not know. That is the first time I have heard about this.
I don't know if they teach it in French also, but they should. Everybody should have the right to receive instruction in--
NDP
Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB
But if the material were drafted in French, then why would they sign up for training in English?
Conservative
NDP
Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB
I think that is the proof. In any case, we will leave it up to you to investigate.
Interim Ombudsman, National Defence and Canadian Forces Ombudsman, Department of National Defence
Yes.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Steven Blaney
Thank you very much Mr. Godin.
That ends today's meeting.
Mrs. McFadyen, I would like to thank you on behalf of the committee members for having spoken to us today.