Official Languages Committee on April 15th, 2008

[Denis Coderre, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

Point of order, Mr. Chairman.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Mr. Coderre.

[Denis Coderre, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

Mr. Chairman, even if this is a political debate, I find this totally unacceptable. There are no anti-francophones here. So I would ask the witness to withdraw his comments. He is appearing before us because he is part of a public institution and he is accountable to taxpayers. Mr. Stursberg, I do not accept your remark that you and your organization are being treated as anti-francophone. We want the truth. The arrogance that you are displaying here today is clear evidence that we were right to call you before the committee.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you, Mr. Coderre.

I think that this is a delicate issue and it is more a matter of debate or interpretation. I think it is now clear that all members of the committee are keenly interested in our linguistic duality and the advancement of both communities. I would ask Mr. Stursberg to continue. We may at least be able to correct certain perceptions that I am convinced are wrong.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Yes, Mr. Chairman. I do not want that to be taken off my time.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Very well, Mr. Godin, we will be generous.

[Richard Stursberg]

What should I do now: continue with Mr. Godin or respond to Mr. Coderre?

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

You can continue with Mr. Godin, Mr. Stursberg.

[Richard Stursberg]

That is my answer, actually.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

That is your answer, but I have a problem with it. This is a particular case, but it focuses on singing. Does it means that if an English-speaking singer appears on a Radio-Canada program or any other TV channel, we will change channels? What kind of attitude does the CBC have?

[Richard Stursberg]

I have to say that—

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

That is what you said, sir.

[Richard Stursberg]

My colleagues at Radio-Canada have exactly the same policy, which is that anglophone musicians and singers are not presented on TV in French. That is the truth. My colleagues at Radio-Canada decided not to broadcast the gala, and I respect their decision.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

You said Radio-Canada wasn't there because it was a feature program in English in Toronto that some francophones had been invited to. I'm pretty sure that when Radio-Canada does that kind of show—and it's not because I'm particularly interested in defending them; that's not my inclination—if someone sings in English, they're not going to cut out that performance just because it's sung in English.

[Richard Stursberg]

We also have shows with francophone musicians, as I said a bit earlier. As for this show, it was all about the gala and the hall of fame. That's my reasoning.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

You think anglophones wouldn't want to listen to a song in French if they didn't know the singer. They turn the TV off or change the channel.

[Richard Stursberg]

Yes, that is what we think. The danger, if you have someone who's a total unknown in English Canada—

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Who is going to make them known?

[Richard Stursberg]

We have many responsibilities. We made a decision. You are free to agree or disagree, but that was our position.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Do you still take that position today?

[Richard Stursberg]

Yes.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

After all that's happened?

[Richard Stursberg]

Yes.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

We're going to go to another member.

Mr. Chong.

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Stursberg, for appearing today. I wanted you to come today, to have the CBC here today, not to rehash the events concerning the songwriters gala and singer Claude Dubois, but rather to take the opportunity that issue highlighted to talk about how you're fulfilling two mandate items of the 1991 Broadcasting Act.

Before we go on to that discussion, I think something needs to be responded to, and that is that you can't have it both ways. You can't say on the one hand that your programming decisions are independent and then demand that members of Parliament respond to criticisms that some third party made about your independent programming decisions.

You stated earlier on that you're independent in your programming decisions, but then you also stated that you were surprised we didn't speak out against Mr. Claude Dubois's remarks. If your programming decisions are independent, then people's comments on them aren't really our responsibility, especially if they're not parliamentarians and are simply citizens.

That being said, the reason I wanted you here today is to talk about how you're fulfilling two items in the 1991 Broadcasting Act. In particular, subparagraph 3(1)(m)(iv) reads that your programming should include “the particular needs and circumstances of English and French linguistic minorities”, while subparagraph (vi) reads that your programming should “contribute to shared national consciousness and identity”.

In light of that, I think you've highlighted some of the things the corporation has been doing to fulfill that part of the act—the television show Sophie, and some of the other initiatives you've undertaken in recent years—but I think there are a lot of people who often wonder whether there isn't more that can be done.

I think about things such as newsgathering. I can't tell you how many nights I've watched the national news on the CBC's main television network, and then I watch the same national news on Radio-Canada, and they could be from two different countries, frankly: the topics, the focuses, are completely different. I think that while there have been some efforts to gather the news jointly, and I have seen that, in many cases it doesn't happen. That's one area in which I think the corporation could do a better job of fulfilling its mandate.

The other thing I've often been aware of is this. Radio services are fairly efficient, fairly cheap—they're not incredibly expensive—but in many parts of, for example, Ontario, you can't get the main French-language radio station. If you do, it's on the AM band, and the reception is awful. There's another example of how there's a cheap, efficient, effective way to deliver French-language services on radio that isn't happening right now. In my part of southwestern Ontario, it's almost impossible to get French-language services on a radio station from Radio-Canada.

Those are just two things I would point out where a better job could be done in fulfilling subparagraphs 3(1)(m)(iv) and (vi) within the 1991 Broadcasting Act.

Maybe you could respond to those two issues.