Evidence of meeting #4 for Official Languages in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was blind.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Tommy Théberge  Department Head, Alternative Media Production Service and Technical Devices Services, Institut Nazareth et Louis-Braille

9:05 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Steven Blaney

Welcome to the fourth meeting of the Standing Committee on Official Languages. Today, Tuesday, February 24, we will hear from Mr. Tommy Théberge, Director of Services at the Institut Nazareth et Louis-Braille. We want to welcome him to our committee.

We were also scheduled to hear from two other witnesses, Mr. Côté from Quebec City, who was unable to come due to illness, and Ms. Landry from Shediac, who was unable to come because of the weather. After we have heard from our witness, we will see whether the committee members still wish to hear from these other two witnesses at a future date.

So without further ado, we will begin with opening remarks by our main witness. Then, we will proceed with our usual rounds of questions.

Mr. Théberge.

9:05 a.m.

Tommy Théberge Department Head, Alternative Media Production Service and Technical Devices Services, Institut Nazareth et Louis-Braille

Thank you very much.

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. It's a pleasure for me to be here with you this morning to talk about braille. It's extremely interesting to be here with you all, because we are celebrating the 200th birthday of Mr. Braille, the ingenious inventor of this tool. I am also going to talk to you about the impact of the new unified braille code, both in terms of rehabilitation and alternative media. This is what I will be speaking about today.

I'd like to start by saying a few words about myself and my role at the Institute. The Chair has suggested that I give you a little introduction. I have been working at the Institut Nazareth et Louis-Braille for the past seven years. I am responsible for two services: technical assistance and alternative media formats, meaning everything related to the production of braille, e-texts, tactile graphics, digital full text DAISY, large print and, of course audio.

Technical tools are made available to the visually handicapped—be they blind or seeing impaired—to ensure that they can resume their activities, be it writing, reading, or getting around. These tools range from computers to braille note takers, braille output devices and white canes—in short, everything that is related to the provision of technical assistance. That is my role at the Institute.

The Institut Nazareth et Louis-Braille is a rehabilitation centre that provides adaptation and rehabilitation services to the visually handicapped living in Quebec, specifically in Montreal, Laval and the Montérégie region. The Institute covers a very large territory that represents approximately 50% of francophone clients in Quebec.

Other rehabilitation centres provide services to the visually handicapped in Quebec City or in other regions such as Trois-Rivières and so forth. They also provide services, but the volume of those services is more concentrated in the urban areas. Understandably, mobility is often an issue. As a result, in order to have access to these services, these individuals often live in urban centres.

Essentially, we provide services in various fields. It can be in the area of helping people resume their daily activities such as getting dressed, feeding themselves, etc. When people lose their vision, they must relearn to do things such as brush their teeth. When people suffer a substantial vision loss, they need to relearn things or learn how to do things differently. We help people do that.

We also help people with mobility issues and with getting around by showing them how to use a white cane or a guide dog. We also provide psychological support services and lessons in braille to people of all ages.

In 2006-07, some 8,000 individuals were registered at the Institut Nazareth et Louis-Braille for direct user services. We're talking about 5,350 direct services, excluding optometric services. These are services that I have just described, whether it be helping people resume their daily activities or get around or teaching them braille and so forth.

Some of the clients of the Institut Nazareth et Louis-Braille are blind and use braille. In Quebec, approximately 1,500 are able to read braille fluently. We could add to that figure some 300 or 400 francophones, maybe more, living outside Quebec.

Before continuing, I would like to stress the fact that there are two types of braille: grade one braille and grade two braille. Grade II braille and Grade I braille. Grade I braille is a letter-by-letter, word-by-word transcription.

Grade II Braille is a series of approximately 900 abbreviations presented in documents. For example, the word “necessary” is transcribed by “nc”, and the word “certainly” becomes “cn”. It is similar to stenography, which you may be familiar with. Why are there two types of braille, Grade I and Grade II braille? It has to do with the ability to quickly read documents and the volume of paper needed for braille. On a 8 1/2 x 11, 12 points font page of paper, braille has a ratio of 2.5. When you are producing a document that is 2,000 pages long, it works out to 3,000 pages of braille. Grade II allows good readers to read information more quickly.

The Institute Nazareth et Louis-Braille is about 150 years old. The Institute has been operating for about 35 years, providing services in its current form. You may recall that before 1970, the blind were sent to separate schools. When integration became the norm, the visually handicapped were able to integrate regular schools, while continuing to receive support from the Department of Education and the Department Health, through rehabilitation centres such as ours.

The Institute has always been concerned with the issue of alternative media formats and the role that it plays in this area. The Institute is a founding member of the Canadian Braille Authority, which is a pan-Canadian body responsible for various issues related, among other things, to standardization. On the anglophone side, the standardization of English braille is an issue for this body. On the francophone side, this initiative began in 2001 and was completed in 2006-07. I will come back to that a little later. We also play a role with regard to the Canadian Braille Authority.

We are very involved in the Comité québécois de concertation sur le braille, the CQCB. This committee falls under the Office des personnes handicapées du Québec and brings together four networks: education, rehabilitation, culture and community living. The CQCB is a very active organization in terms of promoting and ensuring wider access to braille.

We also work in close collaboration with the group of international experts on all braille-related issues within the Francophonie. Recently, we undertook an initiative to reform Grade II braille, since this need was identified by Francophonie members. Quebec, France, Belgium, Switzerland and the African countries are now meeting to ensure that once we have dealt with reforming Grade I braille, we can move on to address Grade II braille.

We also provide assistance as a member of the advisory committee of the Canadian Transportation Agency, which will be meeting shortly. We play a consultative role with that agency with regard to adapting transportation and documents provided to individuals using public transit. There are also other issues related to accompanying the visually impaired.

We are very concerned about the issue of public transit, especially throughout Quebec. We are therefore cooperating with the Société de transport de Montréal et with AMT, the regional transit authority, in regards to transit issues.

The new unified French braille code was adopted in response to a need that had been identified. In the past, a number of codes were used throughout the Francophonie. Document layout was left to the discretion of the individual publishers, who simply followed established guidelines.

A blind person might read a document and, depending on whether he or she were in France, Quebec or Manitoba and depending on who produced that document, the layout would be different. So we wanted to standardize document layout rules. We also wanted to review the use of symbols. We needed to agree, for example, on how to standardize indicators for enter/return, upper-case, bold, or italic. This standardization process came about as a result of the problems we had faced. This was a collaborative effort that began in 2001 in the wake of the Casablanca agreement and that led to the creation of a task force that examined this whole issue.

The standardization process was completed in 2006. In fact, France adopted the code in 2006. An order was issued, and the code was enforced as of that date. In Quebec, the code is slated to come into effect in September 2009. We finally gave the go-ahead in November 2008. We agreed on a date, on ways to disseminate the new information, and on an implementation schedule. The code must be implemented in the educational, rehabilitation, and cultural communities, so in several areas.

Today, I'm going to talk to you more about rehabilitation, although I am comfortable answering questions dealing with other aspects. As you can well understand, the rehabilitation community is very small. One often comes across the same people.

9:15 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Steven Blaney

Mr. Théberge, if you don't mind, we'll start to go around the table, and you can answer members' questions. We'll start with Mr. Pablo Rodriguez, from the Official Opposition.

9:15 a.m.

Liberal

Pablo Rodriguez Liberal Honoré-Mercier, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good morning, Mr. Théberge. I'd like to thank you for being here today. I'm trying to wrap my head around this topic as it is rather complex. We are not used to discussing this subject. This is certainly true for me, but I'm very glad that we have the chance to discuss it today.

I'd like to know who has standardization authority. For example what is the federal and provincial governments' role in Canada in standardization matters? And internationally, is there a supranational body which ultimately coordinates what happens in France and here for example? Is there a concrete procedure in place?

9:15 a.m.

Department Head, Alternative Media Production Service and Technical Devices Services, Institut Nazareth et Louis-Braille

Tommy Théberge

In Canada, there is the Canadian Braille Authority, which I briefly alluded to earlier. The organization has a permanent seat and is comprised of representatives from the Francophonie. However, the Canadian Braille Authority is a committee that does not have the means to do a lot. In terms of standardizing French braille, the province has taken a more active role. The Comité québécois de concertation sur le braille has largely taken on a leadership role with this project. This body brings together the educational , the rehabilitation and other related networks and communities as well as French, Belgium and Swiss partners. So that's how the initiative came about.

9:20 a.m.

Liberal

Pablo Rodriguez Liberal Honoré-Mercier, QC

What specifically seems to be the stumbling block at this time? What decisions need to be made to solve this problem?

9:20 a.m.

Department Head, Alternative Media Production Service and Technical Devices Services, Institut Nazareth et Louis-Braille

Tommy Théberge

Money is often one of the main issues. In order for an organization to operate properly, it must have some financial leverage. English is by far the main focus of the Canadian Braille Authority. And that's one of the reasons why Quebec stakeholders in the community have taken matters into their own hands.

9:20 a.m.

Liberal

Pablo Rodriguez Liberal Honoré-Mercier, QC

Is English standardized, across the board?

9:20 a.m.

Department Head, Alternative Media Production Service and Technical Devices Services, Institut Nazareth et Louis-Braille

Tommy Théberge

Not yet. The process is underway, and I can tell you that it is tumultuous.

9:20 a.m.

Liberal

Pablo Rodriguez Liberal Honoré-Mercier, QC

Why is that?

9:20 a.m.

Department Head, Alternative Media Production Service and Technical Devices Services, Institut Nazareth et Louis-Braille

Tommy Théberge

There are a whole host of issues to consider. When you undertake a process of that sort, tradition, for example written tradition, becomes an issue. Agreeing on a set of symbols means dropping others. And sometimes it's difficult to compromise. We face the same difficulties in French. One of the hot topics when the French-language CBFU was adopted was figures. The recommendation is that Antoine figures be used. In Canada, two kinds of figures are used: Louis-Braille and Nemeth figures. In Quebec, the latter were used. One issue was that in France, Antoine figures were used.

9:20 a.m.

Liberal

Pablo Rodriguez Liberal Honoré-Mercier, QC

I'm sorry, but can you explain to me what Antoine figures are?

9:20 a.m.

Department Head, Alternative Media Production Service and Technical Devices Services, Institut Nazareth et Louis-Braille

Tommy Théberge

There are three different ways of indicating figures in braille depending on the symbol used and the indicators. There are three ways that blind people receive information. And one of the problems was agreeing on the kind of figures to be used. It was an issue for francophones and it's also one for anglophones. And there are other issues, of course.

9:20 a.m.

Liberal

Pablo Rodriguez Liberal Honoré-Mercier, QC

You said you needed resources. Who can provide them: the provincial or the federal government?

9:20 a.m.

Department Head, Alternative Media Production Service and Technical Devices Services, Institut Nazareth et Louis-Braille

Tommy Théberge

The onus is certainly on the federal government to support bodies that can speak on behalf of both the Francophonie and the English-language community. And they need to be financially autonomous so that international task forces can be set up. Clearly, that's the federal government's responsibility.

9:20 a.m.

Liberal

Pablo Rodriguez Liberal Honoré-Mercier, QC

The federal government currently does provide funding for that.

9:20 a.m.

Department Head, Alternative Media Production Service and Technical Devices Services, Institut Nazareth et Louis-Braille

Tommy Théberge

It does give some money to the committee.

9:20 a.m.

Liberal

Pablo Rodriguez Liberal Honoré-Mercier, QC

It gives it directly to the committee?

9:20 a.m.

Department Head, Alternative Media Production Service and Technical Devices Services, Institut Nazareth et Louis-Braille

Tommy Théberge

I think so. I'm not sure of the amount.

9:20 a.m.

Liberal

Pablo Rodriguez Liberal Honoré-Mercier, QC

It's really interesting to be here today and to be discussing braille and matters affecting the blind. I get the sense that we don't usually talk about this. Do you understand what I'm saying? You have to talk about it to realize that we don't actually talk about it.

9:20 a.m.

Department Head, Alternative Media Production Service and Technical Devices Services, Institut Nazareth et Louis-Braille

Tommy Théberge

There's a lot needed, that's for sure. Both when it comes to adapting texts and to access to services. The visually impaired often have to work really hard to promote and increase awareness of their rights. There's really a lot of hard work to be done in that area.

9:20 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Steven Blaney

We'll continue this conversation with Mr. Richard Nadeau.

9:20 a.m.

Bloc

Richard Nadeau Bloc Gatineau, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good morning, Mr. Théberge.

You said you're aiming for a deadline of September 2009 for across-the-board standardization within the Francophonie. What still has to be done for this standardization to occur? Will it be achieved?

9:20 a.m.

Department Head, Alternative Media Production Service and Technical Devices Services, Institut Nazareth et Louis-Braille

Tommy Théberge

To begin with, I'd like to clarify the issues that we're dealing with when it comes to three specific areas, culture, education, and rehabilitation.

As far as culture is concerned, in Quebec, the Service québécois du livre adapté, which is part of the Bibliothèque et Archives nationales, provides all users with access to documents in braille and in other alternative media formats. The new code has changed the way producers do things. The Institut Nazareth et Louis-Braille is a producer. Mr. Côté, who's absent today, is also a braille producer. The new formatting rules now apply to the layout of braille documents to which blind persons have access. So he'll have to make some organizational changes to his processes and practices. That's one of the first cultural issues at stake.

In terms of education, the new code will be adopted as of the first year of primary school and so it will affect young children. I referred earlier to changes to figures. Those concerned will now have to use the new layout code.

Of course, we are expecting a transition period. Students currently at CEGEP or university will still have access to 1955 or 1996 braille documents, which is what they know. Ultimately, in 10 years time, all users will use the same code. So that's another issue.

When it comes to production and textual adaptation, we are foreseeing an overlap for time where various codes will be used in the layout of documents.

As far as rehabilitation is concerned, to begin with we had to review our rehabilitation tool, in other words the way we teach braille. For Grade I braille, we worked over the course of last year with the Association des établissements de réadaptation en déficience visuelle au Québec. We mandated a committee, which I also look after, to review braille teaching methods based on the new code's new rules. At the same time, we worked on pre-braille, in other words getting used to exploring true touch prior to actually learning braille per say.

Rehabilitation is another issue. It involves training and awareness building. Documents will be disseminated based on the new code as of September 2009. So we have to make our clientele aware of the new changes they'll come across in their daily reading.

9:25 a.m.

Bloc

Richard Nadeau Bloc Gatineau, QC

So that means that francophones, whether they are from Switzerland, Belgium, France, Quebec, Canada, Acadia, or elsewhere in the francophone world, will be able to read the same way.