Official Languages Committee on Nov. 1st, 2012

[Guy Lauzon, Conservative, Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, ON]

Do you think that the celebrations should be held in both languages?

[Marie-France Kenny]

We want to encourage dialogue and, in order to do that, the celebrations must be held in both languages.

[Guy Lauzon, Conservative, Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, ON]

Mr. Thompson, in Lethbridge, Alberta, for example, we're going to celebrate the 150th anniversary. Should the planning include both anglophone and francophone participants?

[Stephen Thompson]

I will answer your question but use the Chicoutimi example, not the Lethbridge example.

The English-speaking community of Quebec has consistently explained to this committee that ours is a concern over our community culture, and not necessarily language. We are a very bilingual population. How would linguistic duality be expressed in a celebration of the anniversary in Chicoutimi? How would we recognize ourselves?

If there were a community in Chicoutimi, which there is—a small one—that was consulted during the planning of whatever celebration was available in Chicoutimi, and if they were reflected in some way—if they were mentioned in the script, if there were some sort of cultural product, a song, a play, a visual art representation of the community in the Chicoutimi area—that would be a reflection of the community of linguistic duality in the celebrations in Chicoutimi.

We're not talking about a split script here. That's not what we're trying to convey.

[Guy Lauzon, Conservative, Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, ON]

Okay, but with all due respect, maybe I would like to come at it from a different perspective.

Quite frankly, I was born a francophone. I had to learn to speak English as an adult. I'm forever learning, trying to perfect my French. What really helps me is being in a francophone milieu or a bilingual milieu, like the House of Commons or like this committee, because I hear a lot of French, and that helps me to perfect and absorb more French. I know it's difficult, but using that example of Chicoutimi, if the anglophones were there at that event, and they were listening to 50% French, they would, through osmosis, pick up some of the French, and vice versa. The francophone community, from the English community, would....

I think we have to go to two official languages. If the francophones are doing their event with some anglophone participation, and vice versa, I think.... It keeps us from advancing as quickly. Trying to become bilingual is a very onerous undertaking, as you well know, but I think we have to take every advantage.

If we ever want to get to the point where we're saying, "Let's be bilingual and celebrate both official languages", then we should do it in both official languages. That would be my take.

Mr. Couture, did you have something to add?

[Alexis Couture]

I think that your question involves two important issues: representation and accessibility. With regard to representation, it is important that the communities, whether they be anglophone or francophone, feel as though they are represented in the celebrations, regardless of where they are located.

[Guy Lauzon, Conservative, Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, ON]

Equally?

[Alexis Couture]

It must be equal, based on their weight and their role. I think it is just important that they be represented.

You spoke about Alberta. Some of the first settlers of Alberta were francophone. It is thus important that francophones be represented. This also holds true across the rest of the country. Both language communities must be represented. The communities could, with the organizers, determine how they would be best represented.

The second point is accessibility. I think that organizing an event that is completely bilingual in all regards sometimes detracts from the event. However, if the event is accessible to someone who does not speak both official languages, then we have met one of our objectives. I think that it is important to do it this way, that is, to make sure that the communities are represented and that the events are accessible.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you.

Mr. Benskin, you have the floor.

[Tyrone Benskin, NDP, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

Hello. Bienvenue.

All of your presentations were wonderful. I always enjoy hearing from Madame Kenny because we have some common views.

When it comes to language, we haven't had a good talk, as a country, in a long time, and for me

the 150th anniversary celebrations represent the perfect opportunity to have this discussion, this conversation, and to share what is happening. For me, it is very risky to start talking about

bilingualism as an entity, as a commodity, as a thing that we have to have equal. It's about accessibility, as the very eloquent Mr. Couture has expressed.

I just learned something from you about Alberta: out there,

the first settlement or village was a francophone community. That is something that we need to know about our country. We need to know about this type of history.

Would you comment on the importance of accessibility? For me it doesn't mean it has to be equal French, equal English; it means that if it's a French community, the event or the project is in French, but it is accessible to those who don't speak French so that they understand where that community comes from, the history of the community, and celebrate the community without the community having to—for lack of a better term—water it down.

It's the same thing with the English community. Its celebration is in English in Quebec, with accessibility in French so that

when francophones arrive at that celebration, they will see that the English community understands the history of the French community.

May I ask for your comments or opinions on that philosophical statement?

[Marie-France Kenny]

I agree with the question of accessibility. I don't want people to just read things to me in French and English. I want celebrations to reflect linguistic duality. I want to see francophone artists, anglophone artists, Métis and first nations artists. I totally agree.

I was chair of the celebration of the 100th anniversary of the City of Regina. They named me because I was a good organizer and the crown corporation I worked for volunteered me. I happened to be French, and I was the only one. Consequently, there was a small French component in the celebrations that might not have been there had I not been on that committee.

If a city or a region wants to plan something, it's important to do it jointly. It's important that the French don't do a francophone show with little English, or the English don't do an English show with little French. We need to sit together, plan it together, and celebrate together.

[Dr. Lorraine O'Donnell]

I have a couple of comments on accessibility.

In terms of process, some really good ideas are coming up about developing projects in certain ways, ensuring that once they're complete they become available in both languages.

At the process level, I would point the committee to work by Benoit Côté of l'Université de Sherbrooke, who has developed an innovative program of bringing together French and English students in the province of Quebec called PÉLIQ-AN. There is good process work.

I would like to also underline content. At the break we were speaking with Monsieur Dion about what exactly is being celebrated, which isn't something we've discussed very much today. To the extent, for instance, that the focus is actually on Confederation as an act—the history of the meetings at Charlottetown and in Quebec City and so on—I think some very interesting accessibility issues will open up, because we will see that Confederation itself was, as Stephen and others were saying, an act of compromise and of working out very important issues between what were at the time conceived to be the two nations that were working together, the English and the French. I would emphasize that accessibility needs to be perceived at both the process and the content level, so that the understanding of what is being celebrated is innately inclusive and people see themselves recognized in the content as well.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Okay. Thank you.

Mr. Chisu, you have the floor.

[Corneliu Chisu, Pickering—Scarborough East, CPC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I would like to thank the witnesses for their presentations. I will address you in English because my English is better than my French.

I think I'm the only person on this committee who was born outside the country—well, probably not—but I come from a trilingual country in which Hungarian, Romanian, and German are spoken, and I appreciate very much the bilingualism of Canada.

I can tell you also that it is one of my roles to promote the French language in my riding, which is divided between the cities of Pickering and Scarborough. In the city of Pickering, we have had the privilege of raising for the first time the Franco-Ontarian flag. In my riding we also have a French immersion school, which was just established. It is very important for me to see that the celebration of the 150th anniversary of Canada reflects this duality and these two languages of our country.

I'd like to ask you how we are involving the provincial and municipal levels, all three levels of government, in these celebrations. I know that at the federal level we have the Official Languages Act, which says that we must respect the French and English languages, but what are we doing with the provinces? The celebration of 150 years is not only a federal government celebration, but a celebration for all the country—all three levels of government—and it is an act that is very important for our country.

I'm asking you how you see, as an example from my point of view, the association of Franco-Ontarians being involved to promote all the events in the two official languages. This is a need.

In my riding, for example, people came from Quebec to the city of Pickering 40 or 50 years ago for various reasons, and they love the French language, despite the fact that they are anglophones or something else.

How do you see us being able to capitalize on the cooperation of all three levels of the government for this?

[Marie-France Kenny]

One thing that might be important is that every province and territory has a minister responsible for francophone affairs. They are called the Conférence ministérielle. They're actually meeting right now, in an economic forum right here in Gatineau, and I have to say that we now have a minister responsible for anglophone affairs in Québec, so I think it's important to involve la Conférence ministérielle.

I also think—and Mr. Chong alluded to this too—that when we transfer money to a province, it's not just a case of remembering that there are francophones in your province, but making sure that they're involved from the outset in any programs or projects that we're creating, so it's important to have a linguistic clause,

a strong linguistic clause. I emphasize that it should be strong because sometimes a linguistic clause exists, but let us just say that it may not necessarily be very concrete.

I think such a clause will go a long way.

Involving the Conférence ministérielle is a great idea, too.

[Corneliu Chisu]

What about the municipal and the regional levels? For example, the Region of Durham is not bilingual. Then there is the city of Toronto. You can have a ministerial level at the province, but how are you involving the municipality? You need to go a little bit deeper.

[Marie-France Kenny]

If we're transferring money to a city, there should be a linguistic clause there also, saying that there's a francophone community....

There might not be. If there is no anglophone community or no francophone community somewhere, I'm not saying we should involve somebody who doesn't exist. However, if you're talking about the city of Edmonton, there is a large francophone component, and I understand that in Pickering there is too. Then there's a francophone organization in the province or even locally that can help and deliver. I think we should have agreements that make them work together and not separately.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you very much.

I'm going to go to Madame Michaud.

[Élaine Michaud, NDP, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Thank you very much.

First, I would like to thank you for your presentations. They were all very interesting.

This seems to confirm something that we already knew and that was brought to light when representatives from the Department of Canadian Heritage appeared before the committee, and that is that you really want the community to be deeply involved in choosing the direction that the celebrations held in each part of Canada will take. I hope that your message will be heard.

I would like to come back to the issue of linguistic clauses because it concerns me a little.

You spoke about the importance of making events accessible to everyone. I would imagine that the goal is to try to encourage dialogue and a better understanding among the different founding nations. One of the communities in my riding is the community of Shannon, which, in the past, had a large Irish population. That is an important heritage to showcase.

However, I am wondering how we can provide access to all linguistic groups in every corner of the country without a mandatory linguistic clause. Earlier, it seemed to me that some of you were not certain that such a clause was necessary. I would like to know how you foresee achieving this type of accessibility if some sort of obligation is not imposed in this regard.

Mr. Thompson, you can start.

[Stephen Thompson]

Language clauses are something we've been working on lately at the QCGN in consultation with Agriculture Canada around Growing Forward 2. Language clauses are definitely something the QCGN and the English-speaking community have supported. I'll let Madame Kenny speak for her organization, but they are universally supported. The Commissioner of Official Languages has spoken in their favour as well.

Language clauses are tricky sometimes, when you step into areas of provincial jurisdiction and areas of concurrent jurisdiction, such as agriculture and immigration, but there is a mechanism that Agriculture Canada recently talked to us about. It's about securing rights from products that are derived from federal spending.

Federal money comes into a project, for example, and produces a written piece of material. The province may not be obligated to have that material accessible in both official languages, but what the federal government does in the negotiations is secure the rights to that material. The federal government then takes it, translates it, and makes it available in both official languages. In that way you can make the material accessible.

[Élaine Michaud, NDP, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Do you think that this idea could apply to the 150th anniversary celebrations and would ensure that events are representative of and accessible to both official language communities?

[Stephen Thompson]

It would depend on the nature of the project. If the project were done in partnership with a province that for whatever reason, legal or otherwise, was reticent to provide the information or product in both official languages, this would be a mechanism whereby the federal government could ensure its accessibility in both languages.

[Élaine Michaud, NDP, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

I am going to ask Mr. Couture and then Ms. Kenny to respond but to please keep their comments fairly briefly since I also have questions about other things.

[Alexis Couture]

It is important to keep in mind the context and the scale. There are specific contexts and specific scales. For example, if funding is granted to towns or provinces, there would be very strong linguistic clauses associated with that funding because those bodies have the ability to comply with them. However, if the funding is for a neighbourhood party and extremely strong linguistic clauses are imposed, no one will apply for funding because they will not know how to comply with those clauses.

The idea is to develop a model that would make it possible to measure the accessibility of an event and to then make people aware of how to make their event accessible. An ironclad linguistic clause is not necessarily how we are going to succeed in making events accessible.

In short, it depends on the context and the scale.

[Élaine Michaud, NDP, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Thank you.

Ms. Kenny, what do you think?