Official Languages Committee on Dec. 6th, 2018

[René Arseneault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Commissioners Carrier and Boileau, who appeared here, suggested setting aside the courts for the moment and adopting an act clearly providing that the departments have duties they must discharge. The act must have teeth and must not merely state pious wishes. The act must not leave room for any interpretation or laxism.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

Thank you, Mr. Arseneault.

We will now move on to the next speaker, Mr. Généreux.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Théberge

I want to go back to the statement you just made. You said that, even if the university funding issue were resolved, the basic problem of lack of respect for the Franco-Ontarian community and all francophone minority communities in Canada would remain.

Would you please explain exactly what that means? I put the question to Mr. Nolin, but he didn't want to venture an opinion. Since you are the Commissioner of Official Languages of Canada, you're perfectly able to tell me what you think. I don't doubt there are financial solutions for the university's problems, but I'd like to hear your comments on that.

[Raymond Théberge]

I think the basic problem is attributable to the fact that the specificity of a francophone minority community or an anglophone community in Quebec, for example, isn't recognized. There's a history behind that specificity, and the linguistic communities make an enormous contribution to the development of their province and society.

If there's no change in the role of Ontario's commissioner, that means the importance of that community is still unrecognized. We've resolved the financial issue regarding the university, but are we recognizing the francophone community's place in Ontario? I think that's the problem.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

You're telling me the current Ontario government doesn't recognize francophones.

[Raymond Théberge]

In my opinion, the present government doesn't clearly understand the place the Franco-Ontarian community, an official language minority community, occupies in Ontario. One need only consider the comparison that's been made between that community and the Chinese or other communities that have settled in Canada. It shows that people don't really understand the history associated with the official language minority communities, which is entirely different from that of a Chinese or other community. The reason is that we've strayed from the concept of linguistic duality and what it means today.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Imagine that Quebec decides tomorrow morning to abolish anglophone school boards in the province. Would your thinking be the same?

[Raymond Théberge]

Yes.

First, I'd say you have to understand the importance of the anglophone school boards in the development of that community. Second, I would ask ministers or prime ministers to have a frank discussion with the community on the impact of that decision. Third, I would recall that we must comply with the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

As a result, the governments of Nova Scotia and Prince Edward Island have shut down school boards. On the other hand, they've preserved the Conseil scolaire acadien provincial in Nova Scotia and the Commission scolaire de langue française in Prince Edward Island. The government definitely has the power to close school boards or commissions if it wants, but those two examples prove it's possible to preserve minority school commissions.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Going back to the idea of attaching Ontario's French language services commissioner to the Office of the Ontario Ombudsman, could you explain how that would work, the changes it would impose on the commissioner's role and the everyday reality of Franco-Ontarians as well as the impact on his independence? Are any other Canadian provinces in the same situation?

[Raymond Théberge]

The only regions in Canada that have commissioners who are responsible for language issues are the provinces of Ontario and New Brunswick, as well as the Northwest Territories and Nunavut.

Attaching the commissioner to the Office of the Ontario Ombudsman would strip the commissioner of one of his two roles, the one associated with the promotion of French-language services, in which he conducts studies and investigations. That's not in the mandate of an ombudsman, who responds to individual cases submitted by individual citizens. The commissioner position should therefore be changed. However, Mr. Dubé has bluntly said it's not his role to act as the Commissioner of Official Languages.

It's possible to have an organization that's designed to receive complaints, if that's what you want, but that's not the commissioner's role. His role is to advance English and French, increase awareness and educate not only the the government, but also the anglophone majority in order to improve French-language services in Ontario in health, education and other sectors.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

Thank you very much, Mr. Généreux.

Thanks very much to you, Commissioner, and to the members of your team. It's definitely enriching to hear you talk about today's topic.

We will suspend for a few minutes and then resume in camera.

[Proceedings continue in camera]