Official Languages Committee on Dec. 13th, 2018

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

For the university to become known, first it would have to continue to exist.

[Dyane Adam]

You are quite right.

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

Right now the building is on fire and we have to put the fire out. That is the first thing we need to do.

Ms. Adam, I really like what you said. January 15 is a very important date. You just said as chair of the board of governors that we could not allow ourselves to accumulate debts and deficits and that at a certain point difficult decisions have to be made. for instance the decision to lay off workers, close offices and so on. It is therefore urgent that you receive some funding to keep your employees and keep the offices open so that this project may continue.

What we hear is that the current Liberal government does not want to fund the university because it a needs to receive an official, formal request from the Ford government, which it will never receive. We have to stop dreaming in technicolour. The government will not receive that request, and certainly not by January 15.

You spoke about other federal government means or obligations that are interesting; but to get there, would we not need to temporarily change the function or mission of the people who work there? We could for example, set up a six-month francophone knowledge and innovation hub. The federal government could fund that.

[Dyane Adam]

The federal government could fund a lot of things. The francophone hub is one projet and already partners have come forward. We also plan to create a Franco-Ontarian university network with affiliated universities that already exist.

The Université de l'Ontario français is in close contact with the private sector. Our students work with the private sector, either the economic, cultural or other sectors. Indeed, certain things could be done. We could talk about this in more detail, but I know that we don't have time today. There are ways of presenting the project from different angles.

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

Ms. Adam, we have all the time we need because we must find a solution. The Standing Committee on Official Languages has really made this its priority. There is a crisis in Ontario and we have to save the Université de l'Ontario français. To do so, we are going to take all the time we need. If necessary, we will even come back on January 3, which happens to be my birthday.

[Dyane Adam]

Very well.

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

We are going to do everything we need to do to save the Université. If we have to take detours to save it, we will take detours. As we say back home, if by doing the same thing you always fail, you have to try something else.

We are asking the Government of Ontario to make an offer regarding the Université, but it is not making one. Consequently, the federal government cannot subsidize it or make an offer. It's a deadlock.

What are the other possibilities? If we don't have time to discuss this in detail today, I would like you to send us the board of governors' proposals, the proposals from the people around you and the thinkers. What else can we do to save the Université? What short-term mission can we give the people who work for you so that we can reactivate the Université de l'Ontario français project later? At this time, people are preparing a knowledge and innovation hub in Toronto. There isn't really any proper nexus or space for francophones. We have to save this.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

Thank you very much, Mr. Choquette.

[Dyane Adam]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

I am going to consider Mr. Choquette's intervention as a comment because we are trying to go faster so that we can respect our schedule.

I now give the floor to Mr. Lefebvre.

[Paul Lefebvre, Liberal, Sudbury, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Ms. Adam, thank you for being here. You have links with Sudbury. I'm very happy to welcome you this morning.

I find it interesting to hear someone from Quebec say that they are encouraging the federal level to encroach on a provincial jurisdiction. That said, in this country, official languages are an important issue. This is also true for me and for northern Ontario.

My colleague, Mr. Choquette, spoke about the francophone hub that is currently in Toronto and about the important role it plays. Since January 15 is arriving very quickly and since the province is not responding to the calls, what solutions can you suggest to maintain the momentum and continue activities?

[Dyane Adam]

I am asking the federal government to consider provisional funding. Various approaches could be used. The federal government has several mechanists at its disposal to support the development of communities. Your colleague's suggestion is very intelligent. The francophone hub also has private partners, a fact which my team and I have brought to the attention of the provincial government.

However, this requires a cost-benefit analysis. We could examine that. It would certainly delay the opening the university, which was planned for 2020. We want to receive young people who are now in grade 11. We don't want to lose them. So we are conflicted, but at this time we're not aiming for an ideal situation. I'm ready to make all kinds of compromises. I like to achieve my goals. That said, the road is not always as straight as we would like it to be.

[Paul Lefebvre, Liberal, Sudbury, ON]

Are there any precedents in the educational field? Can you give us any concrete examples of cases where the province backed out and the federal government took over the reigns?

[Dyane Adam]

Yes, there are some. In some cases, the federal government has created institutions outright, notably the Canadian Institute for Research on Linguistic Minorities in Moncton. I'm also thinking of the Monfort Hospital. I no longer remember all of the details, but I do remember that in that battle we won because of certain legal developments; the federal level gave us a good hand up. If I remember correctly, it transferred veterans' health services to the Monfort Hospital. It really had an important impact at that time. This indirectly strengthened that institution, which serves the francophone minority. There are ways of doing this; we just have to think of them. Where there's a will there's a way. I really believe that.

Universities are often asked to be innovative. I am asking the federal government to be innovative.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

I now yield the floor to Mr. Rioux.

[Jean Rioux, Saint-Jean, Lib.]

Thank you for being here with us.

As I have said repeatedly, I really believe in university education. University level training is back at the Royal Military College Saint-Jean. Universities are extraordinary places of learning and knowledge. You spoke about this. They are incubators that bring together the business environment and the cultural one. In your case, you are mostly concerned with the francophone minority.

I have two questions for you, and I am going to give you time to answer.

First, regarding the Ontario government, may we hope to see a resolution by January 15, or is this really an impasse?

Secondly, you said that there are ways, and that we have to be innovative, and universities certainly are. You must have thought about potential solutions with your board of governors that could bear fruit by January 15. You talked about provisional funding, but are there specific measures the federal government could take? You can tell us, since you have this podium now. We could exert some pressure on our government.

[Dyane Adam]

I must say that I am not an expert on all of the federal programs that exist to support economic development or infrastructure projects.

You know, you have everything to hand here at the government, such as competent people in all of those fields of activity. Based on my experience with elected representatives when I was here in Ottawa, I can say that that when they want to solve a problem, there is a whole infrastructure that allows them to do so.

I will go back to the question you asked about the provincial government. Is this a flat refusal on their part? I really don't know. My premise is this: the provincial government made a very unfortunate decision, one which is deplorable for Ontario's francophonie.

It's a new government. Perhaps it did not have all of the information in hand, and it may not have taken the time to obtain proper advice.

As we said earlier, sometimes elected officials make mistakes. That's normal, they are human beings. What is more important is that these mistakes be corrected. In that sense, I believe that everyone may suggest corrections, or find solutions with the federal government.

Furthermore, should the federal government wait for the province to act? Personally, I don't like to wait around. In life, if you want to move forward, I think it's preferable to find solutions. I like a proactive attitude. In my opinion, waiting is not a positive measure, but finding solutions is. They may be temporary, provisional and even a bit hobbled, but if they allow you to reach your objectives, in that case, it's all to the good.

I think there are means that can be used on the federal side. I can't go into details, but I know that people are already working on them at this time, by the way, among others at Canadian Heritage. However, we still need to act.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

Thank you very much, Mr. Rioux.

Mr. Généreux, you have three minutes, which will also include Ms. Adam's replies.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Why?

Are you telling me that I am pulling a Samson?

[Some hon. members]

Hah, hah!

[Paul Lefebvre, Liberal, Sudbury, ON]

He isn't here.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

We can pick on him, he's not here.

Ms. Adam, thank you for being here this morning.

Earlier you referred to an association of francophone universities.

You said that you weren't the type to just wait around. I think we are going to get along well, because I'm not either. In other words, we have to take whatever means are necessary when we want to achieve a goal.

Could the federal government, which has probably already subsidized this university association for different projects, quickly allocate an ad hoc subsidy of a few million dollars to give you a chance to breathe and buy you the time to convince the government to change its decision? I don't know what you think of that idea.

I agree with you. In fact, I was the mayor of a town. I won't say that I did dishonest things in my life, but as you said earlier, sometimes there are other roads to be taken that aren't necessarily as direct as people think. Unfortunately, we sometimes have to take a few detours to arrive at the same destination, while respecting all laws, of course. Sometimes, this shortens the time we have to achieve goals.

What do you think of the idea of using that association of francophone universities?

[Dyane Adam]

Perhaps I did not express myself well with regard to that association. I was talking about the fact that we want to create a network of affiliated, federated universities in Ontario.

At this time, we are receiving offers from everywhere. We are receiving some from Quebec universities and from all over the place, as well as offers of assistance from the private sector. We also received offers to launch a funding campaign for the university. We have, in fact, already talked about this.

But let's understand that this is not a private university.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

That is correct.

[Dyane Adam]

So, we need government support. It's not a university that will cater to elites and cost students $35,000 a year.