Evidence of meeting #47 for Official Languages in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was schools.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Noon
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative John Nater
—since Monsieur Généreux did take some of your time.
We will suspend for a few minutes and then reconvene for the next round.
Noon
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative John Nater
Welcome back, everyone.
Mr. Samson will start our second round.
Your turn.
February 16th, 2017 / noon
Liberal
Darrell Samson Liberal Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you for being here. We always enjoy hearing from witnesses who can give us information that directly reflects the people in the communities. Oftentimes, we don't have all the answers, and we need to hear from people who know the challenges and can give us insight into those issues.
I'd like to make a few comments. Perhaps you will have some to add afterwards.
When I think about the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, I think about the rights that it grants. I am reminded of what the community was able to achieve with the Nova Scotia government, in terms of the questionnaire for school enrolment, be it in anglophone or francophone schools. If a French-speaking Acadian isn't aware of their rights when filling out the form, they may choose to enrol their child in a school closer to home. It's important, then, that people be aware of their rights. You talked about that, but I'd like to delve a bit deeper.
I can tell you that many Acadians in Nova Scotia still have no idea that the province has francophone schools and that they have the right to send their children there. Some are even under the impression that the French-language schools administered by the Conseil scolaire acadien provincial, the province's francophone school board, are private schools. That is what they think, and I have no idea why. That speaks to a lack of education and awareness-raising.
To let people know that they are rights-holders, the federal government agreed to include a question in the form asking whether they are rights-holders. That question appears in both the English and French versions of the form. A rights-holder is defined in section 23. I'm referring to all three paragraphs in the section, not just the first. It took a few years of squabbling to convince the government. As you can imagine, the English-language school boards weren't exactly thrilled. The information is found in the form they provide. How much effort goes into promoting that right? I'm not sure, but, at the very least, the questionnaire is helpful in letting people know about their right. It simply boils down to a right and the need to promote that right.
When it comes to education, I often compare the situation to that of children with autism. When a student is autistic, that child is entitled to receive extra support. It is not necessarily for parents to tell the school board or school that their child has the right to receive a particular type of assistance. The school has to come to that realization and recognize that the child is autistic and therefore has special needs; it is for the school to advise parents of the extra support available to the child. That's rather interesting, is it not? The school and the community are the ones that provide the information. It is a right, and not extending it is irresponsible.
The right conferred by section 23 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms is not really brought to the attention of community members; they are not on the receiving end of any announcements or promotion, and I find that deeply troubling.
To arrive at the necessary data, adding questions to the census would help tremendously. It would not solve the problem entirely, though. I don't want to single anyone out, but we all know full well that certain parents will fill out the questionnaire hastily without paying too much attention. They may not be as conscientious as others. At least the tool exists and helps make people aware of their right to have their child complete their schooling in their language.
I'd like to make another analogy, if I may, even though I am well aware that my colleagues will say that I tend to spend a lot more time setting up my questions than actually asking them. I didn't know this, but the parliamentary secretary informed me today that I even had the right to appear as a witness. Eventually, then, I will contribute to the debate as a witness, and you will have the opportunity to ask me questions.
All kidding aside, thank you for being here, Mr. Tabachnick.
I'd like you to make some general comments on rights determination, comments you haven't already made in previous answers.
12:15 p.m.
Vice-President, Quebec Community Groups Network
You are right; if there are no data to support the argument that some members of the community are not recognized, we have nothing on which to base our claims or to set up programs and services for them. Not all problems will be solved as soon as we have that data, but it is an important tool. It's a step in the right direction; a stage along the way.
You are in a position to recommend that those questions be added to the census. It will not necessarily solve all the problems, but it is something we would like, because it could help us.
12:15 p.m.
Liberal
Darrell Samson Liberal Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS
Ms. Martin-Laforge, Mr. Tabachnick, do you want to add anything?
12:15 p.m.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative John Nater
We don't really have any time left in your round. We may be able to come back—
12:15 p.m.
Liberal
Darrell Samson Liberal Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS
I want to get some time from my colleague, too.
12:15 p.m.
Voices
Oh, oh!
12:15 p.m.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative John Nater
Perhaps in the next round...or we'll have you back as the witness.
Mrs. Boucher, you have five minutes.
12:15 p.m.
Conservative
Sylvie Boucher Conservative Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île dOrléans—Charlevoix, QC
Mr. Chair, I am going to share my time—
12:20 p.m.
Liberal
12:20 p.m.
Conservative
Sylvie Boucher Conservative Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île dOrléans—Charlevoix, QC
No, I am going to share it with Mr. Généreux.
The question I want to ask has come up in the past.
Did the 1982 Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms change anything for the anglophone community in Quebec?
12:20 p.m.
Vice-President, Quebec Community Groups Network
Yes. Because of the charter, some provisions of Bill 101 on signage in French were relaxed. The legislation was not enacted exactly as planned, because the notwithstanding clause was in effect for a period of five years. The program that Claude Ryan subsequently set up and that is still in place, comes from the rights set out in the charter.
There are a number of other examples like that.
12:20 p.m.
Conservative
Sylvie Boucher Conservative Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île dOrléans—Charlevoix, QC
It affected you specifically.
12:20 p.m.
Liberal
12:20 p.m.
Conservative
Sylvie Boucher Conservative Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île dOrléans—Charlevoix, QC
It had an effect in all areas.
12:20 p.m.
Vice-President, Quebec Community Groups Network
There are tonnes of examples.
12:20 p.m.
Conservative
Sylvie Boucher Conservative Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île dOrléans—Charlevoix, QC
Thank you.
My colleague Mr. Généreux can take over now.
12:20 p.m.
Conservative
Bernard Généreux Conservative Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC
Thank you.
We have been establishing the background for an hour and a quarter. Now I would like you to tell the committee what you want to see in the 2021 census. What changes can we ask for now so that, in 2021, we get valid data that will allow you to obtain additional services? That is the basic question before us today.
I will give you all the rest of my time so that you can tell us what you want.
12:20 p.m.
Executive Director, Quebec English School Boards Association
As I explained in my brief, we are asking for two or three things. However, it is not up to us to design the questions; it is up to you and Statistics Canada.
Our specific suggestion is to ask parents whether they were educated in English or in French, and to what level: elementary, secondary or post-secondary.
12:20 p.m.
Conservative
Bernard Généreux Conservative Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC
What would that change?
12:20 p.m.
Executive Director, Quebec English School Boards Association
The children of parents who went to primary and secondary school in English in Canada would then have the right to go to school in English.
12:20 p.m.
Conservative
Bernard Généreux Conservative Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC
That is the case at present.
You would like the question to be asked in order to change the way in which rights holders are recognized. Is that what you are really saying?
12:20 p.m.
Executive Director, Quebec English School Boards Association
Yes. it would allow us to determine who the rights-holders are.
If someone went to school in English, they have the right to enrol their children in an anglophone school. A number of people do not know that. I know, because our school boards are always being asked by parents whether they have the right to enrol their children in those anglophone schools.
I will not answer Mr. Samson's question directly, but I must clarify this. In Quebec, if parents want to be able to enrol their children in an anglophone school, they have to fill out a form and answer a question that is designed to establish whether they are rights-holders. The provincial government then determines whether a person is a rights-holder or not.
The first question would be to find out where the parents went to school and to what level. That is very important because the Government of Quebec defines a rights-holder as someone who has gone to school in English, in Canada, up to such and such a level.