Official Languages Committee on May 11th, 2017

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

Thank you very much, Ms. Boucher.

I know give the floor to Mr. René Arseneault, a member from New Brunswick.

[René Arseneault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Thank you Mr. Chair.

I don't want to seem pretentious and that does not happen normally, but I want to say that the light often seems to come from New Brunswick.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Linda Lapointe, Liberal, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

That's one way of looking at things.

[René Arseneault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

I congratulate the witnesses, and I thank them for being here.

Your comments are very enlightening. I am from New Brunswick, and I did not know how precise this test was. I thought they were ordinary language tests, but I see that there is a whole array of legal language in French and in English. Ordinary mortals do not understand how important it is to have exact terminology in French or in English.

You built this test around four levels, as you explained. When you are a lawyer, you know exactly what that means. The submission of a simple guilty or not guilty plea, where the person returns home and the trial takes place two weeks later, is not the same thing as a hearing with expert witnesses.

I say bravo to you for this initiative. There have been several trial and error attempts over the years. You have come up with a unique product. There are 100 francophone and anglophone judges a year who take language training classes, if I understood correctly. Since they come several times, one may conclude that there have been 300 training sessions.

What is the breakdown between francophone and anglophone judges? Do you host one-third francophone judges from Quebec, and two-thirds anglophone judges?

[Allain Roy]

Yes. I would say two thirds and one third.

[René Arseneault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

That breakdown reflects the Canadian population.

How many of them come from outside the Maritimes?

[Allain Roy]

We have all of the statistics. Forty-five judges from Quebec took the training, and others came from the two territories, the Yukon and the Northwest Territories. There were two judges from British Columbia, and seven from Alberta who come regularly to take training. The same thing applies to judges from Newfoundland and Labrador. There are three on Prince Edward Island, and two of them come for training. For one week we host two thirds of the judiciary of Prince Edward Island! There are also 11 judges from Ontario. Judges from almost all of the provinces came to take this training. I must add that close to 20 judges also are there as teachers.

[René Arseneault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

That is what I noted. There are 150 volunteers, and 20 lawyers who are also volunteers. I have an idea of how it all works. There are 40 actors who act out trials. It's quite an organization. It takes place twice a year for the francophones, and also for the anglophones. Out of curiosity, I would like to attend a session and see what it is like.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

We should all go.

[René Arseneault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Yes indeed.

[Allain Roy]

You would be welcome. As for the actors and artists, I think that a past winner of the Gala de la chanson de Caraquet knows that there is talent in New Brunswick in the Acadian Peninsula.

[René Arseneault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Oh, oh! Thank you very much. It would be my pleasure to sing a song for you.

In 2014, you came up with this unique product. What are your sources of funding?

[Allain Roy]

The funding comes mostly from the Access to Justice in Both Official Languages Support Fund, and has from the beginning. Our language competency assessment program is entirely supported by Justice Canada through the Access to Justice in Both Official Languages Support Fund, and also by the New Brunswick Regional Development Corporation.

As for the sociocultural, pedagogical or community activities, the funding comes from the judges' registration fee of $300. Those activities are not supported by Justice Canada or the Regional Development Corporation. The registration fees allow us to cover the costs of those activities and to pay the artists.

[René Arseneault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Funding is always key. This program is unique, but it must be replicated and extended to provincial courts throughout Canada. You already said this, but I wanted to specify that we are talking about provincial courts here.

Is the funding adequate, and does it allow you to ensure your long-term development? That is what we want to hear.

[Allain Roy]

We are preparing a new action plan. Our current funding ends on March 31, 2018. We will soon be applying for funding for the next five years. We hope that the envelope of the Access to Justice in Both Official Languages Support Fund will be increased. We will always need money, that is certain. That said, we function very well with what we have currently.

[Françoise Bonnin]

I would like to add something, if I may.

The KortoJura evaluation service has begun to fly on its own and is becoming an autonomous and independent entity. We are now at the marketing phase, and have made some important breakthroughs. Given the scope of the potential market, the funding needs to be much greater than our current funding, which was at the outset simply aimed at setting up a project to develop our tools.

[René Arseneault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

I would like to point out that over the past ten days, New Brunswick has reached gender parity in the provincial judiciary; there are as many women as men. In addition, for the first time in the province's history a woman is the chief justice of the provincial court.

When I was younger and attending law school, I worked at the Centre international de la common law en français. We hosted some Louisiana lawyers who wanted to learn the terminology and how to express themselves in both official languages.

Are our Cajun friends a potential clientele for you? Is there some interest? Have you looked into that?

[Françoise Bonnin]

We are going to explore that. It's an excellent idea, but we're not there yet. We are still focusing on Canada.

[René Arseneault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

You need to call Warren Perrin or Marc Thibodeau.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

Thank you very much, Mr. Arseneault.

Mr. Choquette, you have the floor.

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

First I would like to thank the witnesses for being here.

I am very pleased that we invited you. We are doing a study on access to justice in both official languages, and your mission is really remarkable and important in this regard.

I want to point out the presence of Mr. Yvon Godin, who has just arrived. He too has worked very hard to advance access to justice in both official languages and to defend minority official language minority. I am pleased that he has come to greet you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

On behalf of the entire group, welcome, Mr. Godin. You worked very hard on this committee in past years. You have certainly been a good friend to the committee, and we are glad to have you with us.

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

I want to say bravo to the witnesses for their good work.

The mission you have undertaken will improve access to justice in both official languages.

We often hear it said that there are no bilingual judges in British Columbia, Prince Edward Island or Newfoundland and Labrador, and that because of that bilingual judges cannot be appointed to superior courts and to the Supreme Court of Canada. That is what we hear.

Your mission is demonstrating that on the contrary, it is possible. You are working to improve the situation. According to the current policy of the Liberal government, we have to appoint bilingual judges to the Supreme Court. There is also a policy to appoint more bilingual judges to superior courts.

Soon the level of bilingualism of superior court judges may be assessed, but in order to do so a test has to be developed. Were you contacted concerning the development of such a test?

[Françoise Bonnin]

We know that this issue is on the agenda, and that recommendations have been made in that regard. We were not contacted officially, but we are being kept abreast of this possibility for the years to come.