Official Languages Committee on June 13th, 2017

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

For the benefit of the QCGN, the FCFA and other official language minority groups, I would like us to agree on a motion. It does not have to be the same motion, word for word, but I would like us to agree on a motion on the appointment of the Commissioner of Official Languages. I would like us to put partisanship aside. Otherwise, there will never be an end to it. The groups are telling us that they are fed up, that this is not helping them move forward and that this debate does nothing for them. In the meantime, we are not addressing issues such as immigration and early childhood, which are very important to the communities.

I do not know whether we will have a meeting next Tuesday or whether we can hold a special meeting next Thursday. I do not know what we can do. I am not against the idea of letting the dust settle. Call the presidents of the FCFA and the QCGN and see what they want, and what we can do, even if it is just to support the next selection process. We should all agree in committee, because right now we're just remaining divided.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

Mr. Généreux, the floor is yours.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

I appeal to your independence. As the minister said, the Standing Committee on Official Languages is independent. You are free to amend Mr. Choquette's motion, so please let yourself do so. What is stopping you? You do not have to follow your whip’s instructions. This is an independent committee.

Ms. Lapointe, you are constantly talking about the anglophone community in Quebec. Now it turns out that they are calling on us today. What will the papers say tomorrow? They will say that Ms. Lapointe voted against the possibility for the communities to meet with the Prime Minister. That is what the papers will say tomorrow.

The committee is independent. The minister clearly said so in the House. Ladies and gentlemen, do your job. The communities are asking you to do so. It's as simple as that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

Mr. Arseneault, go ahead.

[René Arseneault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

If we are to put partisanship aside, it has to be done objectively and respectfully on both sides of the table. That does not detract from the quality of all the members who are here, and whom I admire. I admire everyone here. If we want to put partisanship aside, we must stop talking about interfering in a government’s selection process.

Mr. Choquette, stop laughing and listen to me.

You are telling those listening to us at SANB and the AJEFNB, among others, in Acadia, in New Brunswick, that this committee is completely incapacitated because we refuse to accept a motion suggesting to the government that those groups should have access to the Prime Minister. In fact, all the committees, organizations and individuals around the world who want to meet with the Prime Minister can do so, or at least ask to do so. What you are saying publicly is that this committee is incapacitated, because we are voting against this motion, which is a simple recommendation asking the Prime Minister to meet with those organizations.

All of us around this table are quality people. Since I have been on this committee, we have dealt with issues such as immigration, the translation bureau, Air Canada, early childhood, and so on. Not once were we quarrelsome or obstinate. Not once did we vote for one motion to the detriment of another. We have always passed the motions unanimously. It is wrong to claim or try to make people believe, and especially those two organizations for which we have a lot of respect, that this committee is incapacitated if this motion is rejected.

So we have to make that distinction. If we really want to put partisanship aside, we need to distinguish between subsection 49(1) of the act, the freedom of people to access or to request access to the Prime Minister, and the work that we do and for which we have been truly mandated.

That is why I am very comfortable voting against this motion.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

Mrs. Boucher, the floor is yours.

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

With all due respect to my colleague Mr. Arseneault, who knows how much I respect him and all the members of the committee, I must say that this is the best one yet.

My colleague says that, if people want to ask for meetings with the Prime Minister, they are free to do so. Come on! We too are free to do so and to help them get a meeting with the Prime Minister. Nothing prevents us from voting in favour of this kind of motion; people are free to make such a request, and so are we.

Do not use lawyer talk to justify yourself. I am not sure whether the communities went to see you, but they contacted us. We are not asking for it, Mr. Arseneault; your communities are. Just because you reject it by talking like a lawyer, I do not buy it, because that's not the reality.

The QCGN and the FCFA are the ones making this request all over the media. It is just a motion to support the request of these groups. As for the rest, the Prime Minister will manage his agenda. The purpose of this motion is only to help these groups go one step further, to show the Prime Minister that even the committee is helping those communities that he cares about, as he keeps saying in the House.

Now you have just given us a diatribe. If we want to respect each other, we will tell it like it is. We will not play lawyers. I will not play the girl from the community or the Conservative. Here, my name is Sylvie Boucher, and I speak on behalf of those who have called on me. It has nothing to do with my political stripe. I'm here to help them. I have been on the Standing Committee on Official Languages for 10 years. I have seen more than most. We have also played politics. It was a no-win situation, because our communities are paying the price.

We are squabbling over something silly. The motion is not harmful to anyone. We are not asking for the moon, and we are not the ones making this request. People want some extra support to gain access to the Prime Minister. As for the rest, Gerald Butts and Katie Telford will manage it.

That is the reality. People no longer want to see a situation like the one we have experienced for three weeks or even a month with Ms. Meilleur's nomination. And I'm not just talking about our committee. People also do not want this issue to be referred to the Senate and go through the same circus.

What we are doing here and now is not just for the government in power today, but for all the governments to come. If we return to power some day, we can say that it is written that the communities want to be consulted. That is all. Then, if the Prime Minister does not want to meet with them, it will be up to him to let them know. However, as a committee, we will have done our job of helping them have this discussion with the Prime Minister. The Prime Minister will make his own decision; he is a big boy.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

Mr. Choquette, the floor is yours.

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

It is very simple. I understand what subsection 49(1) of the Official Languages Act contains. In reality, however, this is not a normal situation. We had five weeks of controversy and then the nominee withdrew her application because there was so much controversy. It had the effect of creating divisions in communities. The matter took up all their time. The communities felt trapped.

There will certainly be a new commissioner; we have no choice. What the communities want is to make their recommendations known to the Prime Minister before he starts any new procedures in this selection process.

Yes, Minister Mélanie Joly has met with the communities, but what did Sylviane Lanthier say when she came out of the meeting with her? She said that she still would have preferred to meet with the Prime Minister. What did Jean Johnson say after his election? He said that he wanted to meet with the Prime Minister. What did Jim Shea, the president of the Quebec Community Groups Network say? He said that he wanted to meet with the Prime Minister.

If this was a normal situation, we would just have to follow the process set out in subsection 49(1) of the act and there would be no problem. However, this is not a normal situation. It is an exceptional situation. We have had polemics for five or six weeks and it is still not over.

What are the groups representing official language minority communities telling us? They are asking us to set partisanship aside once and for all. Committee members have been tearing themselves apart on this issue for a month and a half. One of the first things to do is to sit down together and decide to put this all aside. A process like this makes no sense and cannot continue. We are certainly not going to let the communities suffer because of it.

All we are asking is that the committee should sit down together and send a clear message about what those communities want. They want to meet with the Prime Minister and tell him about their recommendations. They do not want to decide who the next commissioner will be; they just want to tell the Prime Minister about what they want in terms of the process, so that they do not feel left out of it. That's all. They want that to be done at the highest level of this government because official languages should also be one of this government's highest priorities, any government actually, no matter its stripe. That is what they are asking for, given that the situation is really different, exceptional and serious.

So I repeat my appeal. If you need to think about it, if we need to call each other in order to settle this, let's do it. Let's do it for the official language minority communities. They are saying that it is time for us to act and for us to come to an agreement, because this is hurting every community in the country.

We must not just be focused on subsection 49(1). We must also focus on our communities.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

Thank you, Mr. Choquette.

Are there any other comments?

The floor is yours, Mr. Généreux.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Mr. Chair, let me offer the government a way out. When we vote, all it has to do is abstain. Then, it will not be voting against the motion.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

After listening to you, I might have something to propose.

A little earlier, someone asked a subsidiary question. Someone wanted to know what the committee will be doing next Tuesday. Tomorrow, the committee will be sitting from noon to 1 p.m.

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

At the moment, Mr. Chair, I’d like to talk about the motion. We can come back to Tuesday. It’s more important to talk about the motion than to talk about Tuesday.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

Let me finish, Mrs. Boucher. When you ask me for the floor, I will give it to you. At the moment, I’m the one who has it.

On Wednesday, we have a one-hour meeting with the two ministers, which includes the presentations and a time for questions. We had decided that the committee would not sit on Thursday. From what I see, I think that we will be back next week. So I propose to put committee business on the agenda of Tuesday’s meeting. Much as Mr. Choquette proposed, we can come back to the motion at the next committee meeting on Tuesday.

I don’t know whether that works for you. I also have to say that there’s a second motion to deal with.

I’d like to hear what you think about it.

Mrs. Boucher, you have the floor.

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

We do not know how things are going to turn out. Some people are saying that we are going to finish soon because everything is moving quickly; others are saying that we are going to finish next week. Whatever the case, I feel that the motion is important. I am happy that Mr. Généreux has opened the door to the government members opposite. We have to talk about it again and, above all, we have to come to an agreement on a motion that will help us to help the official language minority communities.

If we have a meeting next Tuesday, I will not be able to be there, unfortunately because I will be in my constituency for personal reasons. However, I will be in contact with my colleagues. I can still be reached by telephone.

It is just that I find it disappointing that we have come to this point, after everything we have gone through. We worked so well for the entire year, but since Ms. Meilleur’s nomination, a lot of business has got really messed up.

As I have said many times in the media, my confidence in the committee has really been broken. It has nothing to do with my colleagues here. However, I have come to realize one thing as I get older. At 54, I am involved in politics in order to deal with real issues; I can’t put up with playing political games any more.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

Thank you, Mrs. Boucher.

Go ahead, Mr. Arseneault.

[René Arseneault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Given that all the permanent members of the committee are here at the moment, with no substitutes, and that our colleague Sylvie Boucher may not be able to be here next week, it would be preferable for us to vote today. Is that the issue?

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Perhaps not today. However, tomorrow, we have a one-hour meeting with the ministers. After that, we could perhaps set aside a little time. I don’t know, but think about it on your side. Consider the avenues that we are offering you. We are opening the door to you. We could talk about it again tomorrow, given that we do not know when Parliament will complete its work.

Our official language minority communities need us. We are their voice. I do not want to abandon them. No way. Period.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

Any further comments?

Go ahead, Mr. Généreux.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Despite Mrs. Boucher's absence next week, we could sit on Tuesday, or even Thursday. We are here to work and we are certainly not going to stop ourselves from working. We have no meeting on Thursday this week because our two meetings are on Tuesday and Wednesday. There is no problem next week, however, we will be here.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

Given that no one has called the question, and given that time is moving along, I will postpone the discussion, the decision, until next Tuesday, under the agenda item of committee business.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Are you talking about the question on the motion?

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

Yes, the vote on the motion.

The same applies to the second motion. As we only have about five minutes left in this meeting, the second motion is also postponed until next Tuesday.

I have also been told that the clerk will have an idea of when we can go to Halifax and to Brome—Missisquoi.

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

We do not know when we are wrapping up or coming back. It is difficult.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

From what we are told, we will be sitting right through to the end.