Official Languages Committee on June 13th, 2017

[Ghislaine Saikaley]

The discussions can be about that, but no doubt about other matters as well. For example, do certain categories of employees need that kind of profile? Would another profile be preferable? Perhaps the BBC profile? Those are the kinds of things they have to discuss.

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

Is the working group making progress? Will the report be ready soon? You play an active role in the working group. Will you make joint recommendations with Treasury Board? How will you proceed?

[Ghislaine Saikaley]

There might not be joint proposals, but the Office of the Commissioner will certainly be in a better position to take a stand after these meetings.

As I said, we are waiting for the results of the report by Mr. Mendelsohn and Mr. Borbey, who were tasked with evaluating the issue. They consulted a number of senior officials and supervisors during their study. This report will no doubt offer some interesting ideas to pursue, in my opinion.

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

Time is running out quickly, unfortunately, and I would have liked to talk about Parks Canada in relation to the 150th anniversary of Confederation. It is incredible that there will be free admission to the parks while just two of the nine recommendations have been implemented to ensure that park officials can effectively serve the public in both official languages.

Personally, I asked some questions about this in the House of Commons a few months ago, or perhaps a few years ago, but nothing has been done. I do not know how you manage, but I would be discouraged in your shoes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

Thank you, Mr. Choquette.

Before we all get discouraged, I will turn it over to Mr. Vandal.

[Dan Vandal, Liberal, Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you very much to the witnesses for their presentation.

You mentioned something that is worrisome. According to Statistics Canada projections, the proportion of francophones in Canada will continue to decrease by 2036.

That is very worrisome to me personally, as the member for Saint-Boniface—Saint-Vital, a francophone minority community.

Do you have any suggestions on how to counter this troubling trend?

[Ghislaine Saikaley]

The results presented by Statistics Canada should sound the alarm and make us realize how important it is to act now on various fronts.

We have talked for a long time about francophone immigration and the importance of welcoming immigrants to francophone regions outside Quebec. Before immigrants leave their country, they need to know that there are francophone communities here. They must be welcomed in French when they arrive in these communities and have access to infrastructure to help them, including schools and community centres. Immigration is not just one factor among many; it is a key factor.

Early childhood is another issue. We have talked about early childhood development. We must support early childhood development and minority language education. Education is a continuum from early childhood to university.

There are also programs that support bilingualism among the majority, namely, French as a second language and immersion programs. There are many ways to support bilingualism.

We hope that the official languages action plan will provide support in a number of these areas in order to reverse the trends.

[Dan Vandal, Liberal, Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB]

Thank you.

Your report mentions the difficulties with access to French language tests and their cost to immigrants living in our communities. Can you elaborate on that problem?

After that, I will give the floor to Mr. Samson.

[Ghislaine Saikaley]

We received complaints about that, and we are going to investigate. Those concerned received a copy of our final report. We made recommendations and will follow up in 2018. Since it pertains to an investigation, I can't comment further, but I can tell you that we have addressed the matter. It was determined that the complaints were founded, and we made recommendations to Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada to rectify the problem.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

I, too, want to thank you for being with us today. It's always a pleasure to have you here, whether individually or as a group. Thank you for helping us gain a clearer understanding of our responsibilities as a government and as Canadians.

I am going to focus on chapter two of your report.

Let me say first how critical it was to impose a moratorium as far as services to the community are concerned, to allow time for a proper review of the regulations. I'm very glad you pointed that out in your report.

As you said, if the trend continues, Canada's francophone population will decline. What's more, we are not on track to meet our target for francophone immigration. We've had some very tough years and lost a lot of ground, which we need to make up quickly.

The moratorium at least gives us an opportunity to study the issue and determine which criteria should be added to ensure the development of minority language communities. Ensuring the vitality and sustainability of these communities is key, so I'm very glad you mentioned it in your report. It's important that people all over the country speak out on this urgent issue.

Early childhood development is another crucial factor, as you mentioned. It's an area where resources and services are lacking. This is a crucial aspect that requires swift action to fix the problem. It's a straightforward equation: if children in francophone official language minority communities attend anglophone day care, they will end up going to anglophone schools.

Francophone immigration is decreasing, and fewer services are available. Early childhood development services are non-existent. Fewer students attend francophone schools. That's another major problem, and I could go on. Things are critical, and the moratorium is helpful.

Social infrastructure is another area in need of attention. Again, that's something you should study further. It's important to make sure these new initiatives will provide official language minority communities with opportunities to thrive. Not sufficiently investing in infrastructure and giving the provinces funding without any assurance that it will benefit official language minority communities will simply lead to an even worse state of affairs 10 years down the road.

I would like you to tell us where things stand with—

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

Mr. Samson, you'll have to try to get an answer to that later.

It is now over to René Arseneault, from New Brunswick.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

Fine.

[René Arseneault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you for your question, Mr. Samson.

Ms. Saikaley, as you were giving your presentation, I was reading your brief with great interest. I was reading and listening at the same time, which was doubly painful, not because of you, but because of your findings.

Allow me to read a passage from your brief:

This report revealed that, in Francophone minority communities, early childhood development is hindered by a lack of resources, a shortage of staff at early childhood centres and a fragmentation of services. It also confirmed that the lack of funding earmarked specifically for early childhood in the Roadmap for Canada's Official Languages 2013-2018: Education, Immigration, Communities has made these communities vulnerable and often unable to meet their own needs. Over the past 12 months, the Office of the Commissioner has participated in consultations conducted by Canadian Heritage that will help to develop the next official languages action plan, which will be released shortly. We noted that the groups that were consulted focused on the promotion of linguistic duality….

Against this backdrop, one question is top of mind. Given the quagmire around federal and provincial jurisdiction, how can we achieve our early childhood development objective? What can we do, federally, to identify the needs and provide resources, in light of the infamous turf war between the federal and provincial governments? Do you have any solutions to suggest?

[Ghislaine Saikaley]

The two sides have to share or, at least, agree on the same issues. They have to pay more attention to the issues than to their areas of jurisdiction, and they have to learn to work together for the good of the communities. Is it possible to establish agreements with the provinces? Can the federal government sit down with the provinces to determine what it can do, in its own domain, to support and advance early childhood development?

The two levels of government first have to agree on the importance of the issue so that they can then work together to put agreements in place. They have to move past their turf war, as you call it. There aren't endless ways to get there. If the two sides don't work together, it will no doubt be a tough road.

Sustained funding over the long term is also needed. If one government provides funding, and the following government takes it away, communities will certainly have a hard time maintaining services. Yesterday, Minister Duclos made a very encouraging announcement, supporting some of the recommendations from our report on early childhood development. The government appears to have signed an agreement on early childhood development with certain provinces, and that's very encouraging news.

I think the way forward is through bilateral agreements, which will subsequently be negotiated. Willingness by the provinces and federal government to work together will lead to concrete results on this issue.

[René Arseneault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Hypothetically speaking, if some provinces were recalcitrant despite the good faith of the federal government—keep in mind, I did say “hypothetically”—do you think it would be possible to find solutions?

I know some provinces would gladly tell the federal government to cover the cost of francophone schools or happily build them if the federal government were to foot the bill.

In a situation where the federal government is very much open to starting a dialogue but a province is recalcitrant, do you think there are ways to force, or strongly encourage, provinces to cover their fair share of the work and funding?

[Ghislaine Saikaley]

I would say the pressure also has to come from the communities affected by these decisions. They absolutely have to have a voice at the provincial level. If the federal government is willing to contribute to an agreement but a province refuses, the communities need to apply pressure on the province in order to convey their needs when it comes to these programs.

Will the roadmap afford opportunities for these kinds of agreements with provincial governments? We, on our end, can try to influence decision-making through our studies, regular meetings with community representatives, and field evaluations. We can try to influence the decision-making process, to make the federal and provincial governments understand the importance of their partnership.

[René Arseneault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Thank you.

I have two other quick questions for you and only about 30 seconds left.

During our studies, we've met with community members. The popular saying “by and for the communities” clearly carries a lot of weight. In other words, the communities know best what they need to administer resources and achieve their objectives.

In your soon-to-be-released report, do you address that dimension of the official language minority community reality?

[Ghislaine Saikaley]

Are you referring to our second report, pertaining to early childhood development in Quebec?

[René Arseneault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Among others, yes.

[Ghislaine Saikaley]

We'll have to take that into consideration. It's been duly noted. We are still in the exploratory stages.

In Minister Duclos's announcement yesterday, I read that the communities had also been consulted on the national framework. That's certainly a positive approach, a step in the right direction.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

Thank you very much.

It is now over to Mr. Généreux, who, if I understand correctly, will be sharing his time with Mr. Nater.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Possibly.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

Mr. Généreux, please go ahead.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Good morning, Ms. Saikaley. Thank you for being here today, along with all of your colleagues.

It is my belief that we have an opportunity to modernize the Official Languages Act. You talk about it in your report, in fact.

How should we make sure we fully understand all of the issues associated with the act and its renewal or, rather, its improvement or modernization? Do you have any suggestions for us, in terms of how we should proceed?

I'd like to discuss the context and content of the updated act, beginning with context. Do you have any suggestions as to the witnesses we should invite? Would you be an important witness in the context of a modernization of the act?

[Ghislaine Saikaley]

Yes.