Evidence of meeting #7 for Official Languages in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was bureau.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Louise Brunette  Professor, Université du Québec en Outaouais
Emmanuelle Tremblay  National President, Canadian Association of Professional Employees
André Picotte  Vice-President, Canadian Association of Professional Employees
Donald Barabé  Chairman of the Board of Directors , Language Technologies Research Centre
Alan Bernardi  President General Director, Language Technologies Research Centre

4:10 p.m.

National President, Canadian Association of Professional Employees

Emmanuelle Tremblay

I would really like to know whether she gave you an answer, because our unit has already taken part in several rounds of negotiations; we are asking the employer to give us an idea of the way in which it calculates costs when it signs an agreement with a department. We are trying to find out the basis on which costs are calculated and how it can then claim that costs are fair for Canadians. In an ideal world, we should exclude all kinds of costs which do not relate directly to the words to be translated—hoping that there is no garbage in or garbage out—in order to find out about the whole infrastructure involving terminology, post-editing, revision and so on. I am not referring to basic revision, which should be part of the per word cost.

That is where the Treasury Board must intervene in order to protect all those aspects of the Translation Bureau's costs so that they can be excluded. When you come down to it, adding a cost to those services is a disincentive for departments to use them. The intention was clearly to reduce costs, but they went so far as to violate the fundamental rights of employees to work in the language of their choice.

The Bureau should also comply with the Official Languages Act and protect the linguistic duality of public servants in their workplace.

4:10 p.m.

NDP

François Choquette NDP Drummond, QC

How long has it been since new employees were hired?

4:10 p.m.

Vice-President, Canadian Association of Professional Employees

André Picotte

Since 2011.

4:10 p.m.

NDP

François Choquette NDP Drummond, QC

No one has been hired since 2011?

4:10 p.m.

National President, Canadian Association of Professional Employees

Emmanuelle Tremblay

I think they hired three or four interpreters.

4:10 p.m.

NDP

François Choquette NDP Drummond, QC

No translators have been hired?

4:10 p.m.

National President, Canadian Association of Professional Employees

Emmanuelle Tremblay

No, not as far as we know.

4:10 p.m.

NDP

François Choquette NDP Drummond, QC

No translators have been hired since 2011?

4:10 p.m.

National President, Canadian Association of Professional Employees

4:10 p.m.

NDP

François Choquette NDP Drummond, QC

What consequences is that going to have on knowledge and skills transfer?

4:10 p.m.

Vice-President, Canadian Association of Professional Employees

André Picotte

We are losing expertise, especially in scientific and technical translation. As I said just now, we had accumulated tons of expertise over the years and the decades. The veterans had that expertise, but they have left.

Beforehand, when young people were hired, the experienced people trained them and passed on their knowledge. Now, those people are leaving and nothing is left any more. People talk about outsourcing, using expert freelancers to translate scientific and technical texts. I doubt if you can find those by the dozen, but anyway, that is the direction we are going in. In other words, the Bureau is killing scientific and technical translation.

4:10 p.m.

Professor, Université du Québec en Outaouais

Louise Brunette

In short, quality in translation is also being killed.

I teach students and I can say that they have nowhere to go for the time being. I often tell them that they can have a life outside the Translation Bureau, that they have to look around and they will find it.

Who will train them? Medium-sized and large translation companies don't want to hire them because it is too expensive to train them. Energy, training and quality are lost. I don't want to speak for other universities, but I can tell you what the situation is in mine. When students graduate from university, they are just ready to start learning.

4:10 p.m.

NDP

François Choquette NDP Drummond, QC

Thank you very much, Mrs. Brunette. I would like to ask you a very short question.

4:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Denis Paradis

Thank you very much. We could come back to it.

It is Mr. Vandal's turn.

April 11th, 2016 / 4:10 p.m.

Liberal

Dan Vandal Liberal Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB

My question is about the quality.

Mrs. Brunette, have you noticed a decrease in quality because of the attrition over the past few years?

4:10 p.m.

Professor, Université du Québec en Outaouais

Louise Brunette

I cannot answer that question, because we are talking about the Bureau. Since I don't have a lot of contact with the Bureau, I will let my colleagues talk about that.

4:10 p.m.

Liberal

Dan Vandal Liberal Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB

You talked about a decrease in the number of employees because of attrition to the tune of 400 and 140.

4:10 p.m.

National President, Canadian Association of Professional Employees

Emmanuelle Tremblay

That does not affect the quality, Mr. Vandal.

4:10 p.m.

Liberal

Dan Vandal Liberal Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB

Has the quality decreased?

4:10 p.m.

Vice-President, Canadian Association of Professional Employees

André Picotte

Actually, the quality has stayed the same. As I said, people are going to great lengths to maintain the quality. However, they are increasingly under stress because of the employees retiring. At some point, something's got to give and we will no longer be able to maintain the quality. Right now, we are delivering high-quality work, but there is a limit to what we can tolerate. We are approaching the breaking point. That's the problem.

So my answer is that quality is in fact being maintained and we are doing a good job, but this will not always be the case.

4:15 p.m.

National President, Canadian Association of Professional Employees

Emmanuelle Tremblay

That is also affecting high-quality employees, students graduating from university, either from University of Ottawa or UQO. Their opportunities are relatively limited. In addition, this means that the jobs available to them are precarious. Our proposal is to strengthen the Translation Bureau so that it can once again become the natural place for top graduates who may look forward to joining. We might then see an increase in quality. Right now, the quality is there to the detriment of our members' health.

4:15 p.m.

Liberal

Dan Vandal Liberal Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB

I understand.

Mrs. Brunette, what are your thoughts on that?

4:15 p.m.

Professor, Université du Québec en Outaouais

Louise Brunette

I am prepared to defend machine translation, but I have to say one thing in terms of quality: even with a solid corpus and proper post-editing, machine translation in itself does not guarantee quality. It ensures speed and understanding, but it is not intended for wide dissemination. A political speech should never be translated with a machine translation tool. That would make no sense. The fact remains that you can obtain minimum quality for a client who wants minimum quality. For instance, machine translation can be used if the document stays in-house or if it has to be translated after hours or during the Easter break.

4:15 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Denis Paradis

Thank you, Mrs. Brunette.

Thank you very much, Mr. Vandal. I will allot three minutes of your time to Mr. Arseneault.

4:15 p.m.

Liberal

Dan Vandal Liberal Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB

Very well.