Official Languages Committee on Nov. 30th, 2017

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

That is an excellent question. This concerns a department other than mine, but we have the good fortune of having Mr. Murphy with us. Since he has the requisite experience to answer your question correctly, I am going to give him the floor.

[Doug Murphy, Special Advisor to the Senior Assistant Deputy Minister and Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic and Service Policy Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development]

Thank you, Minister, and thank you for the question, sir.

We did hear from the official languages commissioner. We're actively reviewing that and we will respond. We're on track to respond early in the new year, but we are very aware of the situation with RESDAC.

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

Mr. Murphy, I'm sure you are aware of the situation. You read the commissioner's report. However, before that, the people from RESDAC had contacted you and let you know that they were at the end of their rope.

So, why did you let the situation deteriorate to the point where this organization is having to shut down? It has lost one employee; that person will find another job elsewhere. So we are talking about a loss of expertise; this is something we cannot afford in our official language communities.

[Doug Murphy]

I can't speak to the specifics of the program, other than to note that this is something the department is focused on now, and we're on track to respond within the prescribed timelines.

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

Are the deadlines coming up soon?

[Doug Murphy]

It will be on January 12.

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

Just like you, we deplore this unfortunate situation.

We just published a press release in which we quote the FCFA: “For many organizations and institutions in our communities, it is one minute to midnight.” This was in fact the case with RESDAC, and we saw what happened.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

It may be one minute to midnight, but you only have 10 seconds left, Mr. Choquette.

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I will quote the FCFA later.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

We will now hear from the next speaker.

Mr. Lefebvre, you have the floor.

[Paul Lefebvre, Liberal, Sudbury, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Minister Duclos, thank you, and welcome to our committee.

Like my colleague Mr. Samson, I am very happy and very proud of the work you and your department have done.

In fact, we knew that early childhood would be a part of the action plan. As you know, last year in its report to Parliament, the committee noted that early childhood needed to be made a government priority, and your statement has confirmed that this is indeed the case.

I will speak about my personal experience. When my family and I moved to Sudbury, we had to register our daughter in advance on a waiting list in order to obtain a spot in a French-language day care. We had to do this one year in advance or we would not have had a space. I can also give you the example of my sister-in-law and my nephew, who was unfortunately unable to obtain a day care spot. Even though my sister-in-law made the request six months ahead of time, she did not obtain a space in a day care in her area. Of course, no one wants to drive 45 minutes to go to the day care before driving to work. So we can conclude that there is a shortage of day care spaces in Sudbury, even though this is a very important location for the francophonie.

You spoke about the agreements you concluded. My colleague Mr. Samson is anxious to see Nova Scotia follow the path taken by Ontario. As we know, it is often Ontario that leads the way. That said, I commend my colleagues from New Brunswick and Nova Scotia.

[René Arseneault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

After having followed the lead of the Atlantic provinces.

[Paul Lefebvre, Liberal, Sudbury, ON]

Things are sometimes done elsewhere after they are done in the Atlantic provinces, but often the reverse is true.

Be that as it may, you know that insofar as Ontario and the AFO is concerned, we asked that in the agreement between Ontario and Canada, a percentage of the funding be earmarked for the francophonie. For the time being, we have heard nothing.

Can you assure us that this will be the case?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

Very well.

First of all, Mr. Lefebvre, I congratulate you for being a part of this very enthusiastic group. I am happy to see that people want to do as well as Nova Scotia and that Nova Scotia wants to do as well as Ontario. If this continues, all of the provinces will do very well. This is very good news.

The agreement with Ontario was signed in June. If you read it attentively—we will make sure that everyone has a copy—you will see that it recognizes the importance of investing in educational day care services, for the reasons Mr. Lefebvre clearly explained. In a minority francophone environment like Sudbury, it is difficult not only to have access to services that are sufficient, but also to quality services. The issue is not only to have access to day care; it has to be high-quality day care.

That is why the Ontario plan, for instance, contains a provision to support educators— there are some men, but they are mostly women—so that they feel they have everything they need to do their work well. They have been asking for this for a long time. Things are going well in Ontario, and there is good support from the province. So, the Ontario plan supports the availability, affordability and quality of day care services.

[Paul Lefebvre, Liberal, Sudbury, ON]

Excellent.

One of the points we alluded to in our report is provincial accountability.

You said that the agreement was public, but I am sure that there are quantifiable objectives that can be measured. It is all well and good to say that there will be an agreement, but if objectives can't be measured, you could say that the agreement has been respected even though only 1% of the needs were met, whereas the demand was far greater.

How can we ensure accountability if the objectives in the agreement are broad and can be open to interpretation?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

That is a very important comment.

Provinces and territories would often like to use rather vague language in order to have as much flexibility as possible in the use of resources from the Canadian government. In this case, we are continuing to work very hard to have specific data, percentages, exact numbers of spaces, in order to properly translate the efforts devoted to educational day care services in minority linguistic communities. That is the best way of working together. And so, we are committing to quantified action plans ex ante, ahead of time, and then we will also expect the results to be quantified and quantifiable.

[Paul Lefebvre, Liberal, Sudbury, ON]

Excellent.

I have one last question.

There is something we have heard from several witnesses over the passed two years, since I have been on this committee. That is the notion of services that are managed for and by the main parties concerned. I know you're asking the province to play a role in the management of day cares, but we wonder whether the community could also play a role. Often in small villages, these services are managed for and by the official language minority. In Ontario, for instance, there are services managed by francophones for francophones.

What role should the community play to ensure services are managed by and for the communities concerned?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

That is another very good question.

There are two things.

First, the community and the associations that represent the community groups are consulted before we agree, and before we sign the action plans. We conduct a broad consultation exercise in each of the provinces and territories to ensure that the organizations that represent minority francophone or anglophone communities are involved in the preparation of these action plans.

Second, in every case I can remember, a large part of the work is done through these community organizations, which are sometimes national in scale. That is the case in Ontario, since it is a vast province. Things are somewhat more concentrated, however, in Nova Scotia. So, we we work with the associations that represent francophone educational day care services in Ontario. Afterwards, most of the time francophone school boards do the work to ensure that early childhood services are well integrated into the educational services that follow early childhood. It depends on the circumstances, but that is often where the best work is done, that is to say when early childhood education services are integrated into the educational services that oversee them, and when this goes through existing structures. As we were saying earlier, this allows us to avoid situations where children in minority communities are sent to bilingual or immersion day cares. These services do not offer the quality we are seeking. It is preferable that things be done another way.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

Thank you very much.

We are going to go from Ontario to Manitoba by yielding the floor to Mr. Vandal.

[Dan Vandal, Liberal, Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Minister, thank you very much for your presence here today.

First of all, I want to thank you again for your visit to the riding of Saint-Boniface—Saint-Vital this summer on the occasion of the Habitat for Humanity project. It was very good to see you in the field.

The issue of day cares is extremely important for Manitoba. I know that there is a 13,000-person waiting list, that includes francophones and anglophones. Not one week goes without calls or visits to my office from community groups or individuals telling me that they are looking for a spot in a francophone day care.

We know that in Manitoba, only 17% of the population has the right to access French-language day cares, whereas the national average is 33%, I believe. Too often, in the riding of Saint-Boniface—Saint-Vital, parents have to register their children in anglophone day cares.

In the provinces where bilateral agreements have already been signed, the spaces are guaranteed. However, the Province of Manitoba does not seem to be in a hurry to sign such an agreement on day cares, just as it does not seem to be in a hurry to do so on other issues, such as the environment, health, or cannabis.

In negotiating these agreements, how can we ensure that day care spaces will be created for children? What should I say to the parents I represent to reassure them that there will be day care spaces?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Vandal.

It does seem to be taking longer in Manitoba. We would like things to be done fast and well, but in the case of Manitoba, it is taking longer than elsewhere. I think that things will nevertheless eventually come to fruition. But since things are not yet quite in place, your question is relevant, Mr. Vandal.

As to how the Franco-Manitoban community can support proceedings between the Canadian government and the Manitoba government, you need to call on the associations that are already active on the ground. You know these associations very well. You must exercise positive pressure on the Manitoba government and on the Canadian government so that they work expeditiously in the interest of Franco-Manitobans. The francophone communities of Manitoba represent extraordinary historic and cultural wealth. This wealth is precious, but it needs to be supported, as you know.

[Dan Vandal, Liberal, Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB]

Yes, absolutely.

Since early childhood educators in Manitoba are often bilingual, French language day cares compete with English language day cares, which are often bigger and better. French language day cares have more trouble retaining their employees.

Is the issue of human resources raised in these agreements? How can we be sure that qualified personnel will be there when these spaces are created?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

In the interest of transparency, we must specify that the working conditions of educators, including their salary and work schedules, as well as the important management of service delivery, are matters that are under provincial and territorial jurisdiction. These decisions fall to them. However, the Canadian government can provide considerable support to educators to help them provide even better services. It does so in the context of the bilateral agreements.

Educators appreciate the support they receive to allow them to do good work. If they feel well supported, and have access to help and to the means to develop their skills, they will be more inclined to stay longer with their employer, and as you said so well, at the service of our children.

The entire work environment is important. Things are going well in most provinces. We need to develop a range of support mechanisms so that these people will be more interested in continuing to work, and so that they receive support in developing their skills, support which they greatly need.

[Dan Vandal, Liberal, Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

I will now give the floor to Ms. Wagantall from Saskatchewan, who will share her speaking time with Mr. Généreux.