Official Languages Committee on March 30th, 2022

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

I have to leave at 5:30 p.m. or 5:45 p.m. to give a speech in the House.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Okay.

In that case, I suggest that we do a round of questions, thank the Commissioner and his team afterwards, and then move on to committee work.

Would that be all right with you?

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Mr. Chair, I agree completely with your suggestion, but I can't speak on behalf of my other colleagues.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

I see that everyone is in agreement.

Commissioner, I'm sorry about this interruption. Those are the ups and downs of parliamentary life. We need to consider the fact that votes are being held.

We're beginning the second round of questions. Our new recruit, Mr. Richard Lehoux, will be the first to question the Commissioner and his team.

Mr. Lehoux, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Richard Lehoux, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Commissioner, for being here with us this afternoon.

When one of my colleagues asked you about the immigration target, you talked about increasing it to 7%, 8% or 9%.

How did you come up with that number?

[Raymond Théberge]

We based our calculations on the gap between the 4.4% target and the objective of 200,000 francophone immigrants.

Also factored in was Canada's intention to raise its overall immigration target, which would increase from 350,000 to 410,000 and then to 450,000. That would make it even more difficult to achieve our francophone immigration target. I believe that an 8% target is a minimum.

Other witnesses will probably have much more statistically detailed analyses to answer the question. However, we will be facing a challenge when the number of immigrants increases substantially, because we would then have to figure out how to reach the target.

[Richard Lehoux, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

Thank you.

So am I right in saying that the figure could still increase considerably?

I'd like to ask you a question about the refusal rate for immigration applicants from francophone countries, including several African countries. This point was raised earlier.

How do you explain the fact that the department rejects so many applications. A refusal rate of 80% was mentioned earlier.

[Raymond Théberge]

That's hard to explain. It had something to do with software, but I don't really understand the logic that led to the refusal of these applications. We are waiting for answers, like everyone else. When I worked internationally, there were similar challenges.

I can't really answer that. We are waiting for answers from the department.

[Richard Lehoux, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

Thank you, Commissioner.

Does the Department provide you with data on the rejection rates and the reasons for them?

[Raymond Théberge]

We haven't yet explored this matter with IRCC.

[Richard Lehoux, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

Commissioner, 80% refusal rates are certainly not going to help francophone immigration.

Would it be appropriate to look into the matter more closely?

[Raymond Théberge]

The question certainly merits an analysis. As we work through the next phases pertaining to the target, the strategies and the programs to be implemented, we will clearly have to address it.

Hosting international students would nevertheless be a good way of increasing francophone immigration, whether to Quebec, Moncton or elsewhere, regardless of the federal institutions.

[Richard Lehoux, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

Is it part of your mandate to obtain answers like these as quickly as possible?

[Raymond Théberge]

No, not at the moment.

[Richard Lehoux, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

There are also many applications for rural areas more or less everywhere in Canada.

Do you have any figures that could shed light on this matter for us?

[Raymond Théberge]

I don't have the numbers for rural communities. However, we established the Welcoming Francophone Communities initiative. These communities are often in rural regions. The program supports the integration of francophone immigrants in these communities.

In some provinces, rurality is part of everyday life, and the demographic decline of francophones is even more marked in these regions. There is very often an even more serious shortage of labour. It's therefore important to find ways to deal with these situations and I think that at the moment…

[Richard Lehoux, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

I apologize for interrupting you, but I'm running out of speaking time.

Could we have the figures…

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

You're speaking time is up, Mr. Lehoux.

That's it, Mr. Lehoux.

[Richard Lehoux, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

Mr. Chair, I just want to know if we can have the numbers…

Sometimes there's a delay because of the interpretation.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Mr. Chair, I have a point of order.

My colleagues simply wanted to ask the commissioner to send us the figures in writing.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

I understood that, but as you know, at the end of every meeting, I ask witnesses to do exactly that. The commissioner could send us the information in writing, like all the other witnesses.

Mr. Marc Serré, the Parliamentary Secretary to the Commissioner of Official Languages, will be asking the next questions.

Mr. Serré, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Théberge, for being here with us once again. I believe this is the second time you've come in few weeks. It's always a pleasure to hear your recommendations.

Earlier, you were saying that Bill C-13 had more teeth and that there were provisions covering immigration.

Do you believe that it's important for the committee to study Bill C-13 as soon as possible, within the next few days, or do you think we can still wait for a few months?

[Raymond Théberge]

I believe we need to get going as quickly as possible on a study of Bill C-13.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Mr. Chair, I have a point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Yes, Mr. Godin?