Official Languages Committee on Oct. 4th, 2022

[Richard Lehoux, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

How does it hurt francophones?

[Denis Desgagné]

The labour shortage is having a dramatic effect on the social development of communities and economic development of businesses in the francophonie.

If we want francophone companies, we also need a workforce. That's why we work a great deal with the economic sector. We want to make sure that the skills are in place, both among newcomers, as Ms. Audet mentioned, and among those already in the workforce who need to upgrade their skills so they can apply for better jobs.

[Richard Lehoux, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

Ms. Audet, in your opening remarks, you said that continuous learning is a necessity of life, but you didn't say anything more about it.

I also feel that continuous learning is important. Do you have any suggestions or proposals about lifelong learning? They could be part of certain amendments to include in the bill.

[Mona Audet]

You want to talk about lifelong learning?

[Richard Lehoux, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

Yes.

[Mona Audet]

Okay.

Do you want me to propose amendments that would—

[Richard Lehoux, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

I'm talking about amendments we could include in the bill to strengthen that.

[Mona Audet]

Including the three concepts we proposed— “formal”, “non-formal” and “informal”—in the bill would be a winner and you would be doing great things for Canadians. We also agree with the proposals from the FCFA, with which we have worked, actually.

[Richard Lehoux, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

Would it help move things forward?

[Mona Audet]

Absolutely.

[Richard Lehoux, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

You say that you support language clauses. Could you give us some concrete examples?

[Denis Desgagné]

I have several examples. Among other things, I'm thinking of Employment and Social Development Canada and the case we've all heard about involving British Columbia.

Right now, $300 million has been invested under skills agreements. Very significant amounts are being sent directly to the provinces. Even if the francophones in the provinces take steps to try to be consulted, they make up too low a percentage of the population to be a priority.

I could have talked about immigration, daycare...and I could go on.

[Richard Lehoux, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

Now I'd like to come back to immigration.

In Bill C‑13, does the section dealing with immigration need to specifically link immigration to training, targets and economic development?

[Denis Desgagné]

In my opinion, if you take into account the language clause targets and the amendments proposed by the FCFA and the Réseau, as well as the ones on immigration and the other aspects we're asking you to improve, the bill holds together well and it's going to have a significant impact.

The small amendment we're proposing to include the concepts of “formal”, “non-formal” and “informal” in the bill would help create a much more holistic education continuum. As Ms. Audet mentioned, we need to work together on the continuum to get some credits recognized.

Quebec does it very well, and so do the United States and a number of other countries. There's a methodology behind it that recognizes the continuum and the labour market.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Mr. Desgagné.

Mr. Iacono, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Greetings to our guests and thank you for being here this morning.

Ms. Audet, in your brief, you suggest rewording section 41(3) of the act to include quality education in formal, non-formal and informal settings. Don't you think that government involvement to enhance informal learning opportunities might be an excessive invasion of people's privacy?

[Mona Audet]

No, I don't think so, but I'm not sure I understand what your question means. How would that constitute an invasion of privacy?

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

You referred to learning in informal settings. Can you explain to us what an informal setting is?

[Mona Audet]

When I talked about the informal aspect, I was referring to people reading documents and doing research. I can read you UNESCO's definition if you like.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Okay.

[Mona Audet]

I don't need to tell you what formal education is, do I?

According to UNESCO, non-formal education corresponds to additional, alternative knowledge to—

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

I'm sorry to interrupt you, but I don't have a lot of time.

I read that definition. That's why I'm asking what effect it could have on people's privacy in this context.

[Mona Audet]

I don't understand the question, I'm sorry.

Mr. Desgagné, can you answer it?

[Denis Desgagné]

In learning situations across the education continuum, informal learning refers to what a person doing an internship as a lawyer on a study learns informally, or what a welder learns informally when working together with a colleague.

It helps us implement strategies that are part of a process, a continuum, to help people in minority language situations acquire skills. So this learning dynamic helps us establish much more effective strategies for lifelong learning.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Perfect.

In a situation where unilingualism is taking over in formal and non-formal education, do you see a threat to language minority rights?