Official Languages Committee on Oct. 20th, 2022

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

I call this meeting to order.

I would first like to welcome Mr. Dalton back to the Standing Committee on Official Languages, the best committee on Parliament Hill, and to welcome a newcomer, Mr. Brad Vis. I am delighted to have you here. This is a great committee, as you'll see.

Welcome to the 33rd meeting of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Official Languages. Pursuant to the Standing Order of Monday, May 30, 2022, the committee is resuming its study of Bill C-13, An Act to amend the Official Languages Act, to enact the Use of French in Federally Regulated Private Businesses Act and to make related amendments to other Acts. Today's meeting is in hybrid format, pursuant to the motion adopted by the House on June 23, 2022. Members may take part in person or through Zoom.

To ensure an orderly meeting, I would like to outline a few rules for the witnesses and members.

Before speaking, please wait until I recognize you by name. If you are on the videoconference, please click on the microphone icon to unmute yourself. Please mute your mic when you are not speaking.

For interpretation, those participating through Zoom have the choice, at the bottom of their screen, between three channels: floor, English or French. Members attending in person in the room can use their headset after selecting the channel desired. A reminder that all comments by members and witnesses should be addressed through the chair.

Members in the room who wish to speak need only raise their hands. Members participating via the Zoom application must use the “Raise Hand” function. The clerk of the committee and I will do our best to follow the order. Thank you for your patience and understanding in this regard.

Pursuant to our routine motion, I wish to inform the committee that all witnesses have completed the required login tests prior to the meeting.

I would now like to welcome the witnesses who are appearing in the first hour of the meeting and who form the first panel. First, we have with us the Impératif français organization, which is represented by its President, Jean-Paul Perreault, its Treasurer, Édith Gendron, and its Administrative and Development Officer, Fêmi Abigaïl Houinsou. We also have with us Jean-François Parent, from the Réseau de développement économique et d'employabilité du Canada, the RDÉE, who is participating in the meeting virtually.

Witnesses will have five minutes for their opening statements. Although the members are now used to it, I warn everyone that I am very strict about speaking time because that lets everyone ask more questions.

We will begin with Impératif français.

Mr. Perreault, you have five minutes.

[Jean-Paul Perreault, President, Impératif français]

Mr. Chair and members of the Standing Committee on Official Languages, we are definitely pleased to accept your invitation.

I believe that, in some respects, cultural diversity is now on the defensive all around the world. The concept of nations is increasingly being undermined, and national and international languages are necessarily being shoved aside by the Americanization and anglicization of cultural preferences. We are now involved in a debate that vastly transcends the debates over Quebec, French Canada and Canada as a whole.

Today, we have chosen a more comprehensive approach than a mere study of Bill C‑13. This bill cannot address every aspect of the current inferiorization and trivialization of French, French-language culture, French Canadian identity and Quebec identity. It will take much more than Bill C‑13 to respond to that, and we will have to reconsider our approach and vision in order to do so.

First, I intend to raise a number of points for consideration. We have to understand that, when we discuss the French language, we need to look beyond partisan politics.

Members of Parliament should not limit themselves to the vision of their political parties, imagining that it's the one they should promote. I think we need to look beyond partisanship and try to understand the situation so that every party can develop its own approach to the problem. Consequently, our comments today will reflect that non-partisan stance.

There is little or no recognition of cultural and linguistic asymmetry in Canada. The federal government, in its own way, imposes its vision of bilingualism and multiculturalism on Quebec, while Quebec strives to protect and promote its identity, culture and language within its borders in order to make French the only official and common language in Quebec.

In addition, the symmetrical vision of the status of English and French results in inequality. There is nothing wrong with acknowledging that status. However, when we realize that French, an official language, is a minority language and, what's more, that it is declining and regressing, we need to abandon the symmetrical approach as it applies, not to the equality of status of the languages, but also to the resources that are made available to Quebec and the francophonie outside Quebec.

Furthermore, federal resources are inadequate. If French regresses as it is doing, that is obviously due in large part to the federal vision. Funding for the creation, production and dissemination of a strong culture that can promote and spread the French language must absolutely be increased, and by a large margin.

These thoughts transcend partisan politics. That's true. You need only consider the way English-language post-secondary educational institutions in Quebec are overfunded relative to the historical weight of the minority population, and even the English-mother-tongue population, which represents 7.6% of Quebec's total population, all of which results in an underfunding of French-language institutions. What I'm talking about here are reputation and prestige. As I just said, this results in the underfunding of French-language university institutions since 30% of available funding is invested in English-language post-secondary institutions.

How is it that everyone across Canada, including in French Canada and Quebec, acknowledges that French is declining?

I'm not asking you to answer that question, but how do you explain why the organizations that work to promote and advance the majority official language in Canada…

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Mr. Perreault.

You will be able to comment further during the rounds of questions.

We will now hear from Jean-François Parent, the manager of research and policy analysis at the Réseau de développement économique et d'employabilité, the RDÉE

You have the floor for five minutes.

[Jean-François Parent, Manager, Research and Policy Analysis, Réseau de développement économique et d'employabilité (RDÉE) Canada]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Members of the committee, distinguished guests, witnesses and members of the audience, good morning.

Thank you for this opportunity to discuss Bill C‑13 with you today.

With more than 430,000 francophone businesses in the country, representing approximately 19.5% of national GDP and generating more than $130 billion of economic impact, the Canadian economic francophonie wants and absolutely has to be involved in efforts to restore the economy and to modernize legislation promoting the full development of official language communities across the country.

Expectations are running high in the francophone in Acadian minority communities. In a survey conducted by the TACT organization together with the LégerOpinion online focus group, 77% of respondents said they wanted the government to do more for the economic development of francophone minority communities across the country. francophones have great expectations of our elected representatives.

Now that the restrictions and repercussions of the pandemic are gradually easing across Canada years after the fact and the economic recovery is under way, and since we are now facing unprecedented labour challenges, our organization, the Réseau de développement économique et d'employabilité du Canada, or simply RDÉE Canada, wishes to demonstrate its keen interest in Bill C‑13 and its importance for the full development of francophone communities across the country.

The Canadian government officially introduced the bill on March 1 last. The bill's main purpose is to amend the Official Languages Act and other related acts, and more particularly to introduce legislation on the use of French in federally regulated private businesses. The act would grant new rights for employees and consumers in regions with a strong francophone presence and would recognize the right to work in French and to receive communications and services in French from federally regulated businesses.

The question we ask at RDÉE Canada is this: why weren't these provisions included in the legislation many years ago? After all, the new act would apply, in particular, to banks, interprovincial and international rail and road transportation businesses, air and marine transport businesses, as well as telephone and cable companies. Those businesses are important players in our national economy and affect millions of Canadians every year. According to the latest data from the 2021 census, the vast majority of those businesses regularly deal with some of the 2.7 million francophones living in minority communities.

In the past year, we have witnessed numerous debates in the press and in our communities on the importance of this new bill. This legislation is of paramount importance to us at RDÉE Canada because it's a bill that can potentially be used to leverage the francophone factor in developing businesses on Canadian soil. Historically, the language issue has often been overshadowed by business decisions. We would like to suggest another approach, one in which French has substantively equal status with English across the country.

A passage from an article published in L'actualité on June 9 of this year reads as follows: "The Parliamentary Budget Officer stated in a recent report that, under Bill C‑13, businesses would incur one-time costs of $240 million to hire bilingual supervisors."

That article discusses costs. However, in our view, its logic seems somewhat faulty. We should view those costs instead as an investment, a major investment in the capacity of businesses to adequately meet the needs of employees, the labour force and official language minority communities, something, moreover, that too many private businesses currently cannot do.

We need to build a solid foundation that future generations can rely on to provide support and prosperity for official language communities across the country.

Otherwise, if we fail to give proper consideration to the language factor, as well as the economic and social factors in the equation, we run the risk of perpetuating the decline of the French fact in Canada.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Mr. Parent, would you please conclude in less than 30 seconds?

[Jean-François Parent]

I'll be brief.

In closing, I will say that we don't want to see the French fact "folklorized" in the medium term. On the contrary, we want to see it become a powerful driver of economic and community development in this country.

That was the whole purpose of the national summit that we held on September 28 and 29 of this year.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you very much, Mr. Parent.

We will now go to the first round of questions. The allotted time will be six minutes. As I said, I am strict about time so that everyone has the time they need to ask their questions.

I now give the floor to the first vice-chair of this committee.

Mr. Godin, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thanks to the witnesses for taking part in this exercise. As I very often say, you help us to be better.

My first question is for the Impératif français organization.

Mr. Perreault, in your opening statement, you discussed the overfunding of English language education in Quebec, which you pegged at 30%.

Please tell me where that money comes from.

[Jean-Paul Perreault]

It comes from both private and public funding. However, we're talking about 30%. That's a documented figure.

The English-mother-tongue population of Quebec represents 7.6% of the total population.

Allow me to finish. You will understand as we do…

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Please note that I only have six minutes and therefore have to maintain a quick pace. I also have questions for the other witness.

Here's my question. You said that the 30% overfunding came from private and public funding. When you say public funding, are you referring to the federal government or the provincial government? As we all know, education is a provincial jurisdiction.

Is the 30% overfunding that comes from public funding attributable in large part to the federal government or the provincial government?

[Jean-Paul Perreault]

It doesn't matter, since the total is 30% for a mother-tongue population. I don't mean "historical" here. When the Constitution was adopted, it was for the historical minority at the time. Nothing that's been added for the English-mother-tongue population is part of that same vision and, in our view, it should all be allocated to the French-language education system. Thirty per cent is a lot.

If the government, in its programs…

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Mr. Perreault, I have to interrupt you. Thank you for that information. However it's not clear to me. I may have to do some checking with the Quebec government on the subject.

Perhaps some adjustments have to be made on the federal side, but the federal government doesn't have to bear the blame for the entire 30%…

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Just a moment, Mr. Godin. I'll stop the clock.

I've been told we have technical difficulties with the interpretation, but I'm not sure.

You have used two minutes and five seconds, Mr. Godin.

We will now return to questions.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My next question is for the representative of the Réseau de développement économique et d'employabilité du Canada.

I understand the whole process. You told us that things were poorly done in the past. As you know, we can't change the past, but we can change the future.

Mr. Parent, what you think are the three priorities that should be established in Bill C‑13?

[Jean-François Parent]

That's a very good question.

First, to answer the questions regarding the labour force, there should be separate measures for francophone immigration to minority communities. That opinion is also shared by the Fédération des communautés francophones et acadienne, the FCFA. That would be a comprehensive response to the francophone labour force issues in official language minority communities.

Second, you should ensure that federally regulated businesses allow full representation, complete fairness, for francophone minority consumers and employees.

Third, you should define more precisely what an official language minority in a minority community officially represents. It's quite vague in legislative terms, and we'd like it to be clearer, particularly in order to promote the research that's being conducted on minority businesses. A more precise definition would help in making progress on various aspects, including all the work that Statistics Canada is doing on the subject.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Under Bill C‑13, a business in Regina, an airport, would have to comply with bilingualism requirements. As you know, that business is facing a labour shortage and access to francophones is a problem. The airport has to provide bilingual service, of equal quality in both languages, but still can't recruit the required personnel after taking the necessary steps and calling for applications. No one answers the call for personnel to go and work in French in Regina. Those people don't have that skill.

What does that airport do?

[Jean-François Parent]

For example, couldn't second-language learning programs be established for the people who already work there and might benefit from them?

Many options are available to businesses seeking fair representation in both official languages in their operations. If that balance can't be struck by drawing on the available labour pool, it's also possible to develop those skills within the business by establishing second-language learning programs. A single solution isn't always available; many solutions can be added to the equation.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

You mentioned francophone immigration. It seems to me the government doesn't treat anglophones and francophones equitably. Processing times are practically three times longer for francophones.

What would be your priority, first, for meeting your members' economic development needs and, second, for protecting the French language?

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

You have less than 20 seconds left.

[Jean-François Parent]

I would create a special pathway for francophone immigration to minority communities and economic immigrants, those who have the skills sought after in the labour market across the country.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Mr. Parent.

Mr. Drouin will ask the next questions.

Mr. Drouin, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank the witnesses for being with us, both in person and virtually.

My first question is for the representatives of Impératif français.

Good afternoon, Mr. Perreault. I want to inform the members of the committee that Mr. Perreault was my teacher more than 15 years ago…

[Jean-Paul Perreault]

He wasn't a great student.

[Some hon. members]

Oh oh!

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Mr. Perreault taught me statistics, and I can assure the members of the committee that, even at the Cité collégiale, Mr. Perreault was strict about French in our classrooms. He required everyone to speak French. I want to thank him for giving me the chance…