Evidence of meeting #48 for Official Languages in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was subamendment.
A recording is available from Parliament.
February 7th, 2023 / 3:55 p.m.
Bloc
3:55 p.m.
Liberal
Marc Serré Liberal Nickel Belt, ON
One moment, Mr. Beaulieu.
Towards the end of the meeting, can we get a clarification from Statistics Canada? Perhaps when we discuss the bill in the House at third reading, we could refer to the actual percentage. Is it 6.1% or 6.6%?
Therefore, I want to point out that Statistics Canada seems to have released a different percentage. I am wondering how this is handled. Can we keep 6.6% today and then make a correction at third reading if Statistics Canada confirms that the actual percentage is 6.1%, or should we make the correction today?
3:55 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal René Arseneault
Do any of the department officials have the answer?
Mr. Desruisseaux, you have the floor.
3:55 p.m.
Alain Desruisseaux Director General, Francophone Immigration Policy and Official Languages Division, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
The matter has been checked with Statistics Canada. The 1971 census, the first census conducted after the enactment of the Official Languages Act and also the first to collect data on the use of official languages, indicates that at that time the demographic weight of official language minority communities was 6.1% in Canada.
3:55 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal René Arseneault
Therefore, if we refer to the 1971 Statistics Canada census of the population of Canada in amendment LIB‑8, the percentage should be 6.1%.
Is that right?
3:55 p.m.
Director General, Francophone Immigration Policy and Official Languages Division, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
Yes, exactly.
3:55 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal René Arseneault
Mr. Beaulieu, you have the floor regarding Ms. Ashton's subamendment and the amendment moved by Mr. Serré.
3:55 p.m.
Bloc
Mario Beaulieu Bloc La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC
I'm not going to start a war over this, but the first official language spoken indicator has a very broad definition. It can include someone who knows neither French nor English, but who somehow once had French as a first language. In my view, a threshold of 6.6% could ensure that a genuine effort is made to make amends to the francophone and Acadian communities.
3:55 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal René Arseneault
Mr. Desruisseaux, I have a question for you.
This concerns Statistics Canada, and we need to be accurate because this is a bill.
What exactly does the 6.1% refer to? Is it the mother tongue?
3:55 p.m.
Director General, Francophone Immigration Policy and Official Languages Division, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
It refers to the first official language spoken.
3:55 p.m.
Bloc
Mario Beaulieu Bloc La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC
The concept of first official language spoken is related to the mother tongue, the language used at home and knowledge of French. It can be determined by any of those three criteria.
3:55 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal René Arseneault
Ms. Ashton's subamendment refers to the 1971 census by Statistics Canada. We need to be accurate, because this is a bill.
As regards Mr. Serré's amendment, which moves that 6.1% be used instead of 6.6%, do we have unanimous consent?
Mr. Godin, you have the floor.
3:55 p.m.
Conservative
3:55 p.m.
Conservative
Joël Godin Conservative Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC
I will explain.
I trust Mr. Desruisseaux, but as a precautionary measure, I prefer to use the data provided by Statistics Canada. If it is 6.1%, we will use 6.1%. Should we discover that it's 6.6%, it will be 6.6%. Let's not choose a percentage today, because I'm not sure if it's 6.1% or 6.6%. I propose that we simply use the figure provided by Statistics Canada associated with a specific item were talking about.
3:55 p.m.
Liberal
4 p.m.
Conservative
4 p.m.
Liberal
4 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal René Arseneault
I will now recognize Ms. Ashton, then I'll make a few comments.
Ms. Ashton, you have the floor.
4 p.m.
NDP
Niki Ashton NDP Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB
Thank you.
I like this discussion, but what matters to us is that we are basing it on the data presented in the white paper. It reads as follows: “The demographic weight of the Francophone population outside of Quebec, according to the first official language spoken, was 6.6 percent in 1971 and 3.9 percent in 2011”. We therefore took that figure directly from the white paper. That's why we're using that figure.
As with the immigration issue, we need to be succinct and use numbers to ensure that we have clear language in the legislation.
4 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal René Arseneault
All right.
Ms. Ashton, I think everyone agrees with your position. We need to have some hard numbers and a figure to base it on.
However, since the amendment refers to the 1971 Statistics Canada census, in both cases it would appear that there is an error. It could be 6.1%. That's what was confirmed earlier, but I accept what Mr. Godin told us, which is that further verification is required. So those are my comments.
I cannot put LIB‑8 or NDP‑4 on hold until we have the answer and everyone is convinced of the figure, because we would have to suspend all work on clause 6. That is how it works. Let me explain what we were discussing earlier. We have to deal with the subamendment proposing that it be 6.1%, and then Ms. Ashton's subamendment proposing that it be 6.6%, and then come back to the main amendment. So we will debate things in the right order.
If you ask me if it is possible to put that aside and decide on the figure later, I would say that it is feasible, but we would have to reserve clause 6 and all the amendments that relate to it.
I will now let members of the committee ask questions.
Mr. Serré, you have the floor.
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
Marc Serré Liberal Nickel Belt, ON
Thank you for the clarification, Mr. Chair.
To move the process along, I will withdraw my subamendment. Let's vote on the subamendment that proposes that it be 6.6%.
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal René Arseneault
We'll now turn to amendment LIB‑8, as amended by Ms. Ashton's subamendment.
(Amendment [as amended] agreed to: yeas:11; nays: 0)