Official Languages Committee on Feb. 28th, 2022

[Corinne Prince]

I'd like to thank the member for her question.

The level [Technical difficulty—Editor] of Quebec has grown over the past 10 years. Frankly, the mix has become more diverse, with more international students, Operation Syria refugees and, more recently, the Afghanistan initiative and a higher number of refugees through the humanitarian class.

This, coupled with the recent global pandemic, has forced not only the province of Quebec, but our colleagues in other provinces and our global partners to pivot to offer settlement services virtually and online. This has been done very quickly.

Given the future of the pandemic, we would expect there to be a very significant number of services that will continue in a virtual format for the coming years. In fact, the province has implemented a number of those programs online. Recently, the province of Quebec, as well as other provinces, has gone back to a hybrid approach of both in-person and virtual services.

[Patricia Lattanzio, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

I'm going to read something to you, Ms. Prince, with regards to the presentation you gave, and then I'm going to end it with a question.

You said in your presentation that the Canada-Quebec accord on immigration stipulates the following:

Québec undertakes to pursue an immigration policy that has as an objective the reception by Québec of a percentage of the total number of immigrants received in Canada equal to the percentage of Québec’s population compared with the population of Canada.

Furthermore, it reads:

...Québec undertakes to receive, out of the total number of refugees and persons in similar situations received by Canada, a percentage at least equal to the percentage of immigrants that it undertakes to accept.

Do these commitments run contrary to the objective of preserving the province's francophone character?

[Corinne Prince]

Thank you for the question.

In fact, in 2019, Quebec's share of immigrants represented approximately half of its demographic weight in Canada, which was 23%. According to the estimate [Technical difficulty—Editor] 48% of asylum-seekers in Canada, 18% of temporary workers and 14% of foreign students.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Joël Godin]

Thank you, Ms. Prince and Ms. Lattanzio.

We will now move on to Mr. Beaulieu for two and a half minutes.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

First, why is the refusal rate for temporary permit applications so much higher when students want to come to Quebec compared to elsewhere in Canada?

[Corinne Prince]

Thanks for the question Mr. Beaulieu.

I'm going to ask Ms. Kingsley to answer.

[Michèle Kingsley]

The refusal rate for study permits fluctuates from year to year and from country to country, and it does this for several reasons.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

I am looking at a table. We asked an Order Paper question and received an answer. It shows that since 2015, the gap has grown steadily. The most recent data show that in 2021, the refusal rate in the rest of Canada was approximately 32%, whereas in Quebec it was 50% and even as high as 52%.

Am I to understand that you are unfamiliar with these data and unable to explain them?

[Michèle Kingsley]

I'd have to be able to consult the document in question.

Every study permit application is assessed individually in accordance with the same criteria. I explained these three criteria earlier…

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Excuse me for interrupting, but you're not answering my question at all.

You are repeating the criteria. What I'm asking is why things are the way they are.

Not only that, but the acceptance rate for temporary study permit applications is much higher for anglophone universities than francophone universities.

Once again, you won't have an answer to my question. My view is that if we invite people here to question them, we should be able to get answers.

I'm not blaming you, because I think that those are the instructions you were given.

Are you able to give a partial answer to my question? I have figures that clearly reflect a refusal rate that is much higher for francophone than anglophone universities.

[Michèle Kingsley]

Thanks for the question, Mr. Beaulieu.

I don't have the figures you're talking about in front of me at the moment, but I'd like to reiterate the fact that refusals and approvals fluctuate from year to year. Sometimes there is a higher approval rate at some universities compared to others, with the opposite occurring the following year.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Joël Godin]

Thank you, Ms. Kingsley.

In connection with Mr. Beaulieu's comments, I would add that if you have any documents, information or tables you could provide in response to our questions, please give them to the clerk, because after all, as a committee, we do expect to receive answers.

We will now continue with Mr. Boulerice for two and a half minutes.

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for being here with us today.

I'd like to return to discrimination against African immigrants and the abnormally high refusal rate for them.

Ms. Kingsley, you have been focusing your discussion on three criteria, among others, but is there institutional prejudice in the software or the algorithm, or anything like that?

Why is this happening for them, when it's not the case for other developing countries, whether in Asia or South America?

Why has Africa been treated differently from other countries in recent months?

[Corinne Prince]

Thank you for your question, Mr. Boulerice.

I will get Ms. Kingsley to answer, so that she can provide more details about the refusal rates for certain countries and the reasons for them.

[Michèle Kingsley]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The department takes all matters related to discrimination and racism very seriously.

With respect to the review of study permit applications from Africa, some specially-designed training programs to combat racism and prejudice have been made available to decision-makers. My colleague Ms. Hiles could provide further details.

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

Thank you, Ms. Kingsley. I'm hoping there will be lots of training.

I'm going to pick up where my colleague Jacques Gourde left off. We rarely agree about anything, but I share his frustration and exasperation. Our offices are bursting with immigration files from people living in despair and uncertainty. These are people who want to settle in Montreal, in Quebec, and whose files remain unanswered for 24 or even 36 months with no reply. These are people who have started businesses, SMEs, who are not getting a reply. They are desperate. They are having to pay for a second medical examination because the deadlines have been exceeded by so much that their initial examinations are no longer valid and they have to redo them. That costs them hundreds or even thousands of dollars.

Can you promise that this disastrous situation will be improved and that you are planning to introduce measures to process files within time periods that make sense?

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Joël Godin]

Mr. Boulerice, your speaking time is up. I'm not sure whether Ms. Prince can provide an answer in 15 seconds. If not, we'll move on to the next person.

[Corinne Prince]

Thank you for your question, Mr. Boulerice.

I would like Ms. Hiles to speak to that one.

[Alexandra Hiles, Director General, Domestic Network, Department of Citizenship and Immigration]

I would simply add that the levels plans that have been tabled in Parliament are funded levels plans. The department is aware of processing times and backlogs [Inaudible—Editor] and we do have plans in place—

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Joël Godin]

Excuse me, Ms. Hiles. Unfortunately, notwithstanding my respect for your testimony, I am going to have to interrupt you because time is up.

[Alexandra Hiles]

All right.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Joël Godin]

You'll have an opportunity to answer in another round of questions.

Mr. Dalton, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Marc Dalton, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC]

I would like to follow up on what Mr. Boulerice and Mr. Gourde were saying.

It's becoming increasingly difficult to help people in our riding offices. It's taking hours, weeks and even months of waiting. It's definitely affecting francophone immigrants too. This has to be dealt with.

We are being told that the problems are caused by COVID‑19, but that's been two years now. Today, we're talking about Ukraine and Afghanistan. There are always crises somewhere in the world. This situation is unacceptable not only for us, the MPs, but for all Canadians. I know that you are spokespersons and are not personally responsible, but it's important for you to transmit this message so that something can be done about it.

On February 9, the Commissioner of Official Languages stated that:

[…] we're supposed to reach the 4.4% target by 2023, but obviously we're not going to get there. This means that over 75,000 francophone immigrants who we could have welcomed to Canada, outside of Quebec, will not be coming.

Are you in agreement with this figure with respect to the number of immigrants we could have received and who will now not be coming?

[Corinne Prince]

Thank you for that question.

We have continued to add a number of initiatives to ensure—I must say that economic considerations are more promising for...

[Marc Dalton, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC]

Ms. Prince, my question is a simple one: do you agree, yes or no, with the Official Languages Commissioner, when he mentioned 75,000 people?