Official Languages Committee on March 10th, 2026

[Jim Belanger, Conservative, Sudbury East—Manitoulin—Nickel Belt, ON]

Good day. Thank you to our witnesses.

I can see there is a powerful and important purpose behind the modernized Official Languages Act. That's abundantly clear. However, I also believe it is important to stem the decline of the French language and achieve true equality between the two languages.

Earlier, I heard the term “substantive equality”. There may be different definitions of this term. If we use the term “substantive equality” in the legislation we are trying to draft, what exactly do we mean? Do we mean the same thing from one region to another? Can this equality be measured using a percentage of the francophone or minority population in that community?

[Rémi Léger]

Briefly, I would say that formal equality means equal treatment, whereas substantive equality means different treatment. When we say “different treatment”, it means we must listen to the needs, priorities and realities of that minority, and seek to address them to narrow the gap between the minority and the majority. So, it is a matter of equal treatment versus different treatment.

[Jim Belanger, Conservative, Sudbury East—Manitoulin—Nickel Belt, ON]

Do you think substantive equality is realistic?

[Rémi Léger]

I think Parliament believes it is realistic, because it passed this legislation. So, I hope so.

[Jim Belanger, Conservative, Sudbury East—Manitoulin—Nickel Belt, ON]

However, it is not enforced. In my region, perhaps 20% or more of the population is French-speaking. If I go to the hospital to see a doctor, I will see plenty of documents in French and English, but if the doctor speaks to me, it won't be in French. Most French speakers are bilingual. It's easier to speak English than not to.

The question that arises, then, is this: as francophones, should we play a greater role in ensuring that we have access to services and that francophone organizations in our communities can help us achieve true equality?

[Antoine Désilets]

First, research shows that people are bilingual, but not when they are sick or facing major life events. We lose the languages we have acquired as we get older. There are plenty of situations where French speakers, who have been bilingual their whole lives, find themselves at a loss.

Second, before we can achieve equality, we must first achieve equity. I believe that equity requires a wide range of measures that, by their very nature, vary somewhat from place to place to ensure we make progress.

The fact that equality may be a very long-term goal does not mean we should not move in that direction. I believe the legislator’s intent was very clear when the act was passed almost unanimously. Next, we must equip ourselves with the means to achieve it. If we say that the act is not being enforced, and therefore that the act is unenforceable, in my view, that is a tautology. We need to start breaking this cycle, so to speak. The regulations are one way we can truly empower the public service to implement the new act.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yvan Baker]

You have 40 seconds left.

[Jim Belanger, Conservative, Sudbury East—Manitoulin—Nickel Belt, ON]

I will cede my remaining time to Mr. Godin.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yvan Baker]

Mr. Godin.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to my wonderful colleague.

Mr. Désilets and Mr. Léger, I’m going to ask you an existential question. You said that we, as legislators, have done a good job, and we thank you for that. The act is still quite bold. Now, Treasury Board is in the process of drafting the regulations. These regulations must be guided by the principles set out in the act. Do you sincerely believe that Treasury Board is open to revising these regulations and going back to the drawing board?

[The Chair, Liberal, Yvan Baker]

Please give a one-line answer each, because the time has expired. That's all I can do.

[Antoine Désilets]

In my view, Treasury Board is responsible for implementing the will of legislators.

[Rémi Léger]

I agree.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yvan Baker]

Thank you for being concise, gentlemen.

Thank you, Mr. Godin.

Ms. Chenette for four minutes.

[Madeleine Chenette, Liberal, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

I want to thank our experts for joining us.

I'm looking for concrete solutions because you are right. We can do better. So I am going to draw on the testimonies we have heard to get your feedback on this.

Previous witnesses talked about the gender-based analysis plus, or GBA plus. You are indicating your familiarity with this analysis, so I’ll be brief.

Given that we already request data to conduct this analysis and intersectionality—the language was there, but it is not if we use this tool kit, which is already in place to request the analysis and to reinforce the “she” in this exercise—would this be a concrete way to improve things?

[Antoine Désilets]

In my view, yes. It shows the power of political will. When GBA plus was adopted by all federal institutions, it became part of the overall programming—including the work plans that had to be submitted—and was integrated into the system. It would be entirely possible to do the same for official languages. It just takes political will.

[Madeleine Chenette, Liberal, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Mr. Léger, what do you think?

[Rémi Léger]

I agree. Studies have been done by researchers at the University of Ottawa who developed the francophone differential analysis. So there is academic research that could be useful.

[Madeleine Chenette, Liberal, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Perfect.

We can say then that data is important, and that we could improve and strengthen the tool kit Treasury Board already has.

The other thing I heard was about the framework for the vitality of official language minority communities. People are saying there is already a framework and data on this, and that we should build on that.

When I looked at this framework, I realized that it does not cover all government departments, so it does not meet all the needs. However, the challenge is to ensure that everyone is thinking about it, and we need to proceed in stages. So I wonder if this framework is a basic tool for which we absolutely must identify indicators because it has already been adopted. At the same time, any new major program needs to undergo analysis. Instead of saying we have to do everything at once, we are saying we will proceed in stages, and if we have these analyses, we will be able to gradually improve what each department prioritizes.

[Antoine Désilets]

I agree with the pragmatic approach of proceeding in stages.

That said, the act has been in force for two and a half years, and I don't necessarily see any progress in terms of its implementation within federal agencies. I think we really need to start somewhere. I do not accept that we have been out of step with the act for so long. Ultimately, this decision must be made by all federal institutions.

[Madeleine Chenette, Liberal, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Yes, but what we mean is that we cannot go back. We agree that some things are moving too slowly right now.

That is why I am asking whether it is a good idea to say that any new major initiative must at least use gender-based analysis to determine what the priorities are. Wouldn’t that be a way to adopt concrete measures rather than having a set of criteria?

As for the Fédération des communautés francophones et acadienne du Canada, having a set of criteria might be too bureaucratic.

Mr. Léger, what do you think?

[Rémi Léger]

I think Treasury Board missed an opportunity to identify the tools already available within the public service. You mentioned a few, and I would like to add a few more. Employment and Social Development Canada published an official languages lens in 2020. Canadian Heritage published a document in 2022 on official language requirements in federal transfers to the provinces and territories. Finally, the Treasury Board Secretariat itself, in 2017, developed a substantive equality analysis framework. So, there are tools available within Treasury Board itself. I believe it would be appropriate to review these tools and see what we can draw from them to strengthen the draft regulations.

[Madeleine Chenette, Liberal, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Which one do you think would be the most useful to explore?

[Rémi Léger]

They all would be. However, the substantive equality analytical grid contains specific indicators. Strikingly enough, Treasury Board prepared this grid in 2017, but none of the components appear in its draft regulations.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yvan Baker]

Thank you, Ms. Chenette.

On behalf of all my colleagues, I would like to thank the witnesses for joining us today.

I'll now suspend the meeting to welcome the next panel of witnesses.