Public Accounts Committee on Sept. 26th, 2006

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Nepean—Carleton, ON]

Okay, we'll just reiterate that you've already acknowledged that the number is not the number of occasions that police officers actually access the system, so it is a totally irrelevant number.

[D/Commr Peter Martin]

It's accessed for the benefit of police officers.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Nepean—Carleton, ON]

I'll now move on to my next question, which is on the inaccuracy of the system.

I note that the Auditor General indicated that verification frequently determined that information on the weapon's action, make, or serial number was wrong, and that only half of the 1.2 million restricted weapons listed in the old restricted weapons registration system had been re-registered. Can the Auditor General comment on whether she thinks these problems with the data could lead to public safety implications for officers who think they are using accurate information but in fact are not?

[The Chair, Liberal, Shawn Murphy]

That's the final question for you, Mr. Poilievre.

[Sheila Fraser]

Again, that goes to results.

We can all recognize that the quality of the data in the system is very important, and every measure should be taken to ensure.... As we mentioned in the audit, we would have expected the centre to have set targets for quality and to have a process in place to measure quality. That didn't exist at the time of the audit. I am hearing, though, that the RCMP seems to have put some measures in place. We would expect that there would be a quality management system.

[The Chair, Liberal, Shawn Murphy]

Thank you very much, Mr. Poilievre.

Thank you very much, Mrs. Fraser.

Before we go to the second round, I have a question for you, Mr. Martin.

There had been fairly significant concerns, prior to the actual reporting to Parliament, on the firearms program. One of the main things that all departments and agencies report to Parliament on are the plans and priorities. Today, we have released to Parliament 70 or 80 fairly significant plans and priorities. We've made a quick check of the RCMP release, and we can't find anything at all on the firearms registry.

Is it being reported by another department, or can you elaborate on that?

[D/Commr Peter Martin]

I really can't respond to that. I don't know why it's not in there. It should be.

[François Bidal]

The information we have would be reported as an addendum to the RCMP report, because we're still on separate votes for this current fiscal year.

[The Chair, Liberal, Shawn Murphy]

Of course, we may have missed it too. I just wanted to clarify that. You're reasonably confident that it is there?

[D/Commr Peter Martin]

Yes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Shawn Murphy]

Thank you very much.

We're going to go on, colleagues, to the second round. This is the five-minute round. Again, keep your questions and answers short.

Could we have Mr. Wrzesnewskyj again?

[Borys Wrzesnewskyj, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

I'd like to follow up on questions that Mr. Fitzpatrick had.

I find it quite worrisome that the serial numbers of a hair dryer and a soldering gun--and he seemed to have intimate information and knowledge of these sorts of occurrences--were being registered in the registry. It was encouraging to hear that processes have now been put in place so that this sort of abuse does not continue.

I have to say, my concern is that people were doing this with the intent to undermine the registry. To think that a member of Parliament would be intimate with the details of this.... I was just curious.

[Brian Fitzpatrick, Conservative, Prince Albert, SK]

That's a point of order, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Shawn Murphy]

Mr. Wrzesnewskyj--

[Brian Fitzpatrick, Conservative, Prince Albert, SK]

He is suggesting that I am an accomplice to somebody.

[The Chair, Liberal, Shawn Murphy]

Excuse me, Mr. Fitzpatrick. Do you have a point of order to make?

[Brian Fitzpatrick, Conservative, Prince Albert, SK]

Yes.

His allegation is quite obvious. He's saying that I'm directly involved with somebody who's up to public mischief. That's totally out of order. I never said that. This was a publicly reported incident. Back when it occurred it was well known in Saskatchewan. It was reported in the media. I resent this member's allegation or suggestion that I'm actively engaged in this undermining. I think that's way out of order, and this member should apologize right now.

[Borys Wrzesnewskyj, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

As I pointed out, intimate knowledge doesn't mean that he's intimate--

[Brian Fitzpatrick, Conservative, Prince Albert, SK]

You should be clear about what you're saying.

[Borys Wrzesnewskyj, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

--with the individuals involved, so I don't believe an apology is required.

[Brian Fitzpatrick, Conservative, Prince Albert, SK]

It's not what I would expect from you, sir.

[Borys Wrzesnewskyj, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

I'm glad you have in fact acknowledged that what this entails is public mischief. That this act of public mischief was used to undermine something as important as a gun registry, the intent of which is to save lives, is quite astounding.

Once again, I'd like to come back to something I was talking about. I am very concerned that of the 1.2 million restricted weapons that have been registered, only half have been re-registered, meaning 600,000. I know it's impossible to connect. It dates back to the promises of an amnesty by the present government.

I was just curious. You're now deputy commissioner of the RCMP, and you're in charge of making sure that this system works to protect Canadian lives. What is your feeling? It has been suggested that there will be an amnesty for the breaking of laws. How do you feel when you've now been mandated to make this registry more effective? How do you feel about this particular policy and the job you've been given?

[D/Commr Peter Martin]

It's not my place to comment on where the government wants to go. My place is to do as I'm told when they decide where they want to go, and that I will do.

As far as the information in the system goes, the amnesty is there, but the old information is still there as well. The dates on a current licence or registration may be an issue. The government must decide what they want to do about it and then tell us what their wishes are in that regard.

I'd also point out that the Canada Firearms Centre is more than just a registry. It's a program that involves training and education on the safe use and custody of firearms. It deals with the storage of firearms. There are a lot of pieces to this program that provide an ongoing benefit.

[Borys Wrzesnewskyj, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

You mentioned another aspect of this: the storage of firearms. Are there any particular suggestions that you would like to make regarding that aspect? We have the licensing. We have the registry. There is a component about how restricted weapons are stored. Is there anything you would particularly comment on about that aspect of it?

[D/Commr Peter Martin]

No.