Public Accounts Committee on Oct. 17th, 2006

[Wendy Loschiuk, Principal, Office of the Auditor General of Canada]

When we looked at the retention, we tried to determine exactly how many people were leaving at a very high level. We did not break it down into which groups specifically were leaving--for example, visible minorities, or by language or by gender. We were only, at this stage, very much concerned about what the impact was on the ability of the Canadian Forces to have bodies available.

When we asked to see the reasons for leaving, we reviewed the surveys the Canadian Forces had done. In those surveys, we did not see any mention of individuals leaving for language reasons. There was nothing in there to indicate to us that this was an issue.

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Did you factor in language when you surveyed the jobs and recruitment? You mentioned retention, but what about recruiting? Did you ever wonder about that?

[Wendy Loschiuk]

Again, we were looking at the number of recruits who were brought into the process from a very high level, and we were determining what the issues were that were causing recruits not to make it to the end of the process. During our audit work, we highlighted those points of concern, and that was not an area that was raised as a concern during our audit work.

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

In your opinion, what were the reasons given most often for not hiring someone?

Second, what are the main reasons that prevented people from remaining within the armed forces?

[Wendy Loschiuk]

We have indicated in the chapter, and we'll draw your attention to page 60--

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

In the French or in the English version, Ms. Loschiuk?

[Wendy Loschiuk]

In the English version.

There is an exhibit--2.8--and it indicates all of the reasons why people would fall out of the process. National Defence has kept very good records on indicating why people do not make it to the end of the selection process, and those are the reasons generally given there. You can see, if you're looking for the reason most applicants appear to be out of the process, it's because they've either lost contact or the individual has chosen to voluntarily withdraw, and that was 28% of the total.

[Wendy Loschiuk]

We asked the question, what is “lost contact”? It was explained to us that the recruiting centre was no longer able to get in touch with the individual.

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

What do you qualify as “lost contact”?

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Thank you.

Mr. Pile.

Good afternoon.

Do you have anything in your statistics on recruiting that would indicate a problem with recruits who are not hired, who are not kept on because of a problem with language, in other words, they are French speaking and have trouble with the English language? Do you have any statistics on that? Do you feel that it is a problem?

I represent Hull—Aylmer, a local riding, which is probably 75% francophone. People often come to my riding office to tell me that they have always wanted to have a career in the armed forces, but that they had a hard time with the exams and the interviews, because they were expected to speak mainly in English. So it was difficult for them. That is the version that I hear. I'm not saying that it is necessarily true, but this is what I am told. I would like to hear what you have to say about the recruiting process.

Is there a problem for a unilingual francophone or for someone who is not fluent in English when it comes to finding employment in Canada's Armed Forces?

[RAdm Tyrone Pile]

Monsieur, it should not be any problem whatsoever because for the entire selection process, that process is conducted in the language of that individual's choice, whether it be French or English. So the entire process, the examination, the interview, if it was a French-speaking individual, would be conducted in French. If there is a situation, as you have heard reported to you, then that is something I would investigate, because the process should take place in the language of their choice.

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Okay.

I have one more question--short and sweet again.

I don't doubt that you have interviews in French or in English--no problem--but if somebody carries out an interview in French and is not particularly comfortable in English, would that be a strike against him or her?

[RAdm Tyrone Pile]

Absolutely not, no. We use the standard criteria for every applicant wishing to join the Canadian Forces.

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

So whether they are a unilingual francophone or a unilingual anglophone, you are testifying today that the chances to be hired--equal qualifications--are the same?

[RAdm Tyrone Pile]

Absolutely.

As a matter of fact, just looking at some of our recent results--and I'll get Commodore MacIsaac to provide you with some of the details--we've had some very significant advances in recruitment within the province of Quebec.

[Commodore Roger MacIsaac, Director General, Recruiting, Department of National Defence]

If I may, Mr. Chairman, over the past five years or so, the typical area where we received the most recruits was Halifax, areas where there is a strong military presence. But last year, the most recruits were enrolled in the province of Quebec. As a matter of fact, Quebec City was the most significant, by performance measure, if you wish, for bringing in the number of recruits. We are very happy about that.

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

I have just a very short question of clarification. If somebody living in western Quebec is recruited in your Ottawa office--because my understanding is that you don't have a recruitment office in western Quebec, it's on this side of the river--would that be considered a Quebec recruit or an Ontario recruit?

[Cmdre Roger MacIsaac]

I would be guessing to answer that. I can confirm, but I suspect it's Ontario.

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Could we ask the witnesses to answer us, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Liberal, Shawn Murphy]

I'll ask if they can get back to the examiner and give full details as to the procedure in the Gatineau/Hull/Aylmer area.

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

I'm talking about western Quebec.

[The Chair, Liberal, Shawn Murphy]

Western Quebec, yes.

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Thank you. Merci.

[The Chair, Liberal, Shawn Murphy]

Merci beaucoup.

Admiral Pile.

[RAdm Tyrone Pile]

I just wanted to say, we had a very large recruitment enrollment ceremony this past June in Ottawa, and those recruits were from western Quebec and also Ontario. They were enrolled from the province in which they applied, but I don't know if we actually distinguished them from the recruiting centre. Obviously, we distinguish where they come from.

I'm not sure how the statistics are applied, but certainly the province of residence is counted towards that province. We will get back to you with a full clarification.