Public Accounts Committee on Oct. 17th, 2006

[RAdm Tyrone Pile]

It doesn't matter where. In all Canadian Forces organizations, units, formations, where there is a service being provided, especially our recruiting centres, that service can be provided in either official language.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

If I understand what you are saying, that person would be able to receive training in French from the day he joins the army until the day he retires.

[RAdm Tyrone Pile]

There are some limitations on training courses as one progresses through the Canadian Forces. We are attempting to address that and increase the number of bilingual instructors so we can provide as much training as possible in both official languages.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

So there are grey areas, places where that would not be possible.

[RAdm Tyrone Pile]

That is correct.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

Now let's talk about retention in the armed forces. When these men and women become parents, are they able to enrol their children in a school where French is the main language? I don't mean French as a second language or an immersion program. Do the armed forces provide them with assignments in areas that would allow them to send their children to French school, to learn their language?

[RAdm Tyrone Pile]

It's truly a function of the ability of that provincial system to be able to support it. I know that across the country—and for an example, my own children were able to attend French immersion at all the postings we experienced—most of the cities and towns that Canadian Forces personnel are posted to can support the immersion.

As for a true French language school, I don't--

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

Do you understand the difference between the word " immersion" and "French as a first language"? As far as we are concerned, immersion programs are a type of assimilation, whereas when we speak about French as the primary language, we are speaking about the language of the culture.

What you are saying is that, depending on where he is assigned, a member of Canada's Armed Forces will not necessarily be able to educate his children primarily in French.

[RAdm Tyrone Pile]

I can't completely answer that question because I'm uncertain what provincial regions provide; that's the provincial responsibility.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

Thank you.

There are often schools located on military bases, but in Moose Jaw, for example, the service is provided off base. The children must travel to Regina to attend Monseigneur de Laval School, whereas in Bagotville, there are schools for those whose first language is English.

So, the way I see it, soldiers whose first language is French are being discriminated against.

[RAdm Tyrone Pile]

I think the Canadian Forces in general makes every effort to accommodate the language needs of the children of their members, to the extent that it is possible. I can't cite for you any specific situations. For the time that I've been chief of military personnel and for the time that I've been in this organization, I certainly cannot recall situations where we had issues with respect to the parents of families who had difficulty seeking language instruction, or that--

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

Thank you.

I don't mean to be rude, but I must continue because we are short of time. I would like to ask about the courses that a member of the armed forces must take in order to be promoted. I think you addressed this earlier. If someone wants a promotion, there must be a specific course to prepare for the next rank, and I am not familiar with all of the levels. If this member experiences difficulty in understanding the other official language—in this case, English—his career might be stalled, since the Canadian army cannot provide him with the necessary courses in the French language.

[RAdm Tyrone Pile]

I think I mentioned earlier that there's a requirement to achieve functional bilingualism at the rank of lieutenant colonel and commander. If they do not achieve a functional profile at that rank level, they will certainly be restricted from advancing. They have to maintain a certain level of bilingualism within the Canadian Forces.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Shawn Murphy]

Thank you very much, Mr. Nadeau.

Thank you very much, Admiral Pile.

Mr. Lake, five minutes.

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

General Pile, I appreciate you coming.

I appreciate all of you coming today.

You commented on a competitive labour market. Coming from Alberta, and with my other committee being human resources, I can certainly appreciate the challenges you have right now.

Now, taking a look at exhibit 2.4 on page 54 of the Auditor General's report, if you were to draw a trend line from, say, years zero to three and down to the top of, say, years fifteen to twenty, there's a significant space below that trend line in years four to thirteen, and particularly, of course, as identified in years nine to thirteen. If you were to pump those numbers up in years nine to thirteen to meet the trend line, you would have approximately 13,000 more members of the regular force. That is precisely the number the Auditor General says you now have plans to increase to.

Can you comment on what happened between 1993 and 1997 that caused that shortfall? It seems to be that the urgent problems you're having aren't a result of what you're doing now, but they are a result of what happened in that time span.

[RAdm Tyrone Pile]

The period of time you're referring to was when there were a number of government reductions across the board. The Canadian Forces also shared in those reductions. One of the most efficient means at the time was to reduce people. What they did was what's called a force reduction plan, where a number of members of the Canadian Forces had an opportunity to retire or exit earlier than planned. A number of people took that option. That's what we call that force reduction plan bubble.

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

That you talked about earlier?

[RAdm Tyrone Pile]

Yes, exactly.

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

In conjunction with the force reduction plan, it would have been pretty simple for someone to just look at a graph like this and identify that, down the road, this was what it was going to look like, given those plans. Can you tell me what the plans were at the time, the long-term vision fifteen years out from that time point? Obviously someone would have had to envision that we would be in this situation now if they took fifteen minutes to look at a graph like this. Can you elaborate on that?

[RAdm Tyrone Pile]

One would like to think that, but that's not the case. During the period of the nineties, I think we were lucky to look ahead for a couple of years. There was no anticipation that we were going to turn around and expand the Canadian Forces in 2005. We were certainly aware that it was going to be a challenge at some point in the future should we have to expand. But when it was going to happen or which government was going to support force expansion for whatever reason, like changing geopolitical circumstances, those things would not have been predictable back then. As I said earlier, we were in a slow state of decline since the early 1960s, right up until 2005.

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

It seems, though, that we're really not talking about an overall expansion per se, as much as we're talking about just playing catch-up right now to get back to where we were at that time, to the 1993 level. It's not like we're massively expanding the military, other than to play catch-up right now. Is that accurate?

[RAdm Tyrone Pile]

This is all based on a foundation of defence policy and what force structures are required to deliver on those capabilities to meet the policy. Right now, work is ongoing on a defence capabilities plan. We will match our force structure in accordance with meeting the missions that are a result of essentially a capabilities plan or defence policy.

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

Is there a specific plan in place now to ensure that this doesn't happen in the future, a long-term plan?

[RAdm Tyrone Pile]

We are entirely dependent upon what support we receive and what direction we receive from the government.