Evidence of meeting #49 for Public Accounts in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was zaccardelli.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
4:25 p.m.
As an Individual
Our procurement people told us it was okay to use Consulting and Audit Canada.
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON
Somebody was obviously in favour of doing it that way, and I presume that somebody was you.
Michael Onischuk was awarded two contracts, totalling $227,000, to write statements of work for other contracts. In other words, he was contracted to write other contracts. In order to give context to his work, can you please tell me who Anthony Koziol is and what his role was in your organization.
4:25 p.m.
As an Individual
Anthony Koziol was hired to handle our work plan and to ensure that the contracting resourcing was in place, so that we could move forward on the project based on—
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON
So he was hired to handle the work plan. He wrote an e-mail to Mr. Brazeau, who was the head of Consulting and Audit Canada in 2002. It reads as follows: “Hi Frank: Attached is a SOW for a senior procurement specialist. ... The preferred organization is Abotech; the preferred contractor is Michael Onischuk. The expected per diem is $550. ... I have written the SOW after consultation with Dominic Crupi.”
According to this e-mail, you assisted in writing the statement of work and were copied on an e-mail that specifically stated that Abotech and Onischuk were the preferred contract winners. Is that correct?
4:25 p.m.
As an Individual
Mr. Koziol told me that he was writing the statement of work. Those comments—preferred, preferred, preferred—were at the direct request of Mr. Brazeau, who was a contracting expert with CAC. He asked us to use those words.
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON
I know, but that's not my question. It indicates here that you played a part in selecting Mr. Onischuk and Abotech as the winners of the contracting.
4:25 p.m.
As an Individual
Mr. Koziol told me he was going through with the contract. He wrote the statements of work. Consulting and Audit Canada asked us to tell them if there was someone there who had done the job. That someone would then be included in the procurement process, so that they wouldn't be missed if a bunch of people were being asked.
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON
All right.
The term “preferred organization” is used here. The term “preferred contractor” is also used in that e-mail. This e-mail was copied to you, so if it was inaccurate, I'm sure you would have corrected it.
4:25 p.m.
As an Individual
I took Mr. Koziol's word that the word “preferred” was a normal—
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON
I haven't asked a question, so you can't answer it yet.
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON
As we can discern here, the winner was already decided before there was a competition. What bothers me is all these middlemen. This is what the Auditor General touched on, and this is was the KPMG audit touched on.
Your organization directed a contract to Consulting and Audit Canada. After taking a 15% cut, Consulting and Audit Canada directed the same contract to Abotech. After it took its cut, Abotech passed the contract to Mr. Onischuk, who then got paid to write requirements for other contracts. Why didn't you just give the contract directly to Mr. Onischuk instead of paying middleman fees to Abotech and Consulting and Audit Canada?
4:30 p.m.
As an Individual
We followed the process as it was described to us by Consulting and Audit Canada. I hired Mr. Koziol to give me advice on how that process was to work. I am not a procurement expert, and I never was a procurement expert.
4:30 p.m.
As an Individual
Mr. Koziol was responsible for the work plan. Again, use of the word “preferred” came at the request of Mr. Brazeau. My understanding was that this was to ensure that this person was included in any contracting process when it went out for bids. That was my understanding of the word, sir.
4:30 p.m.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON
All right. Thank you for that.
What happened here was that you already decided who was going to get the contract, but you hired three different levels of contractors to tell you how to get that contract to the final contractor. In the process, you spent a heck of a lot of the pension fund's money.
Were you aware that Consulting and Audit Canada's Frank Brazeau arranged the contract to be paid to Abotech's David Smith, out of the pension fund? Were you aware that Mr. Smith is actually the cousin of Mr. Brazeau?
4:30 p.m.
Conservative
4:30 p.m.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON
It didn't occur to you to ask questions when Mr. Brazeau was paying Mr. Smith to pass a contract on to a third person to ultimately do the work you had designated in the first place.
4:30 p.m.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON
Okay. I can't believe that you didn't find it spectacular that you would have to give a contract to Mr. Koziol to give a contract to Consulting and Audit Canada to give a contract to Abotech, who would then give the same contract on to Mr. Onischuk, who would then do the work.
4:30 p.m.
As an Individual
Mr. Koziol was the person responsible for the contracting. He was overworked and he asked for another individual to help him do the work. That's how Mr. Onischuk was brought forward.
4:30 p.m.
Conservative