Evidence of meeting #55 for Public Accounts in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was contracts.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON
That was in an e-mail, sir, that appears in this review.
As an Individual
I understand, and I questioned the word myself to Mr. Koziol, and I asked, “What does that mean, sir?” He explained to me exactly what Mr. Brazeau explained. Being CAC, I was in no position, not being a procurement expert, to challenge the wording.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON
Mr. Onischuk recommended originally that Koziol have a job; Koziol then recommends a contract back to Onischuk, but has to go through two additional steps and pay two additional contractors on the way. It just looks like a lot of people having a lot of fun at the expense of the RCMP and its members. That's what this looks like.
As an Individual
I don't know how to answer your question, sir. You're using the word “recommending”, and I was told that is not what “preferred” means.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON
Mr. McEvoy, did you indicate in your audit that Consulting and Audit Canada was moving contracts through to Abotech in a way that was not normal?
Associate Partner, KPMG
We definitely had problems with the method by which those contracts were awarded.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON
Mr. Marshall, would you have thought it appropriate for Mr. Brazeau to reveal that one of the contractors who was being paid out of his organization was his cousin?
Deputy Minister, Public Works and Government Services Canada
Yes, I would have expected him to do that and to recuse himself from that particular transaction.
Conservative
As an Individual
No. I told the appropriate people that I knew Mr. Smith from when I was young. No one asked me to recuse myself.
Conservative
As an Individual
No. I don't think, if Mr. Smith had died, that the deputy would have given me a day off. I didn't think the relationship—
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON
You just didn't think it was important enough to indicate that this was your cousin who was getting these contracts for doing effectively nothing?
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON
Well, it's obviously my statement, but it was your responsibility to do a job. It looks as though you paid a lot of people for a job that ultimately you can't prove was ever done.
As an Individual
I did not pay anyone, sir. The payment occurred under every one of these contracts through CAC standards at the time.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON
Mr. Marshall, when were you briefed about the irregularities that were ongoing at Consulting and Audit Canada?
Deputy Minister, Public Works and Government Services Canada
I was briefed approximately, I think, around September—something like that. The internal audit commenced in June, and within a couple of months the chief auditor, Mr. Jackson, came to me and said he was very concerned about the practices he was uncovering.
Conservative
Deputy Minister, Public Works and Government Services Canada
We didn't brief the minister at that stage because we were just trying to find out what was happening.
Deputy Minister, Public Works and Government Services Canada
I believe we briefed the minister around March or April of 2005, because at that stage it had become clear that there was a serious problem.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Shawn Murphy
Thank you very much, Mr. Poilievre.
Thank you, Mr. Marshall.
That concludes the first round. Before we go to the second round, I just have a couple of issues I want to pursue.
My first area is to you, Mr. Minto. I find some irony in your appearance here today.
Perhaps some of you aren't aware, but Mr. Minto is the former Assistant Auditor General of Canada. He has many, many years of experience as an auditor and he's extremely competent.
However, when did you move to the Department of Public Works?