Who wrote the RFP?
Evidence of meeting #62 for Public Accounts in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was contract.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #62 for Public Accounts in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was contract.
A recording is available from Parliament.
5:10 p.m.
As an Individual
It was done by PricewaterhouseCoopers at the time, who later became IBM Business Solutions, the statement of work for the RFP. The RFP itself, of course, would have been written by Public Works.
5:10 p.m.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON
Okay.
What worries me here is that Morneau Sobeco actually competed in a bid for which it had written the numbers on a business case. So Morneau Sobeco writes the numbers in the business case and then gets the contract. We have someone here who was one of the authors of the business case and then gets a contract himself.
Mr. Minto, is it normal that people who are involved in writing up a business case then benefit from the contracts that flow out of that business case?
5:15 p.m.
Chief Risk Officer, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Mr. Chairman, it's hard for me to comment, because all of this is happening within the RCMP and it was their area of jurisdiction. One would expect that in cases where specialized help is sought--and it is sometimes up front--enough firewalls are set up so there isn't a conflict of interest. But I don't have the details because this was within the RCMP.
5:15 p.m.
Liberal
5:15 p.m.
NDP
David Christopherson NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
Thank you, Chair.
Time is a problem, a big problem.
Ms. Casey, for the business case, you were one of the authors, correct?
5:15 p.m.
NDP
David Christopherson NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
The business case regarding Great-West Life and Morneau Sobeco.
5:15 p.m.
NDP
5:15 p.m.
NDP
David Christopherson NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
You were. Thanks for the fulsome answer, Mrs. Casey. I appreciate that.
I want to know, was the business case and the argument about the bidding process legitimate and arm's length? I'll put it another way. The issue is, was the fix in? Was the fix in, and then the report was done afterwards to legitimize it? Yes or no, sir?
5:15 p.m.
NDP
David Christopherson NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
No. Then could you tell me why we would have Staff Sergeant Frizzell say under oath in uniform: “When we interviewed the people who were supposed to have been part of that bid, the evaluation committee, they told us that no such process ever took place. This was merely a paper exercise to add legitimacy to the process.”
Would you respond to that, sir?
5:15 p.m.
As an Individual
We did a business case based on some numbers, and that was one exercise. There was an RFP written; I understand it was a banker's box that went out to the world. They bid on it. It was two separate exercises.
5:15 p.m.
NDP
David Christopherson NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
But that's not where we are, sir. Where we are is that you said no, this was an honest, legitimate, and upfront business case and your report reflected that. I have testimony from the staff sergeant of the RCMP, under oath, in uniform, saying that it was all a paper exercise to cover over an improper process. I'm asking you what you have to say about his comments here in front of this committee. Are you calling him a liar, sir, or is he just wrong; in which case, explain why?
Give me an answer, sir.
5:15 p.m.
As an Individual
There was a team put together; it was Mr. Roy, Ms. Valentine, and me. We all sat in a room, we came up with the scoring process, we did the scoring based on--
5:15 p.m.
NDP
David Christopherson NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
I'm sorry, but Staff Sergeant Frizzell said he interviewed the people, and he's going to be back here, sir, so don't think that this is going to end it. Just because you get through today may not mean the end of it. I'm asking you. Staff Sergeant Frizzell said he interviewed the people who were supposed to have been part of the very evaluation you talked about, and they told him it didn't happen.
5:15 p.m.
As an Individual
I put the names in the report that went to Mr. Crupi. I'm sorry if they deny it.
5:15 p.m.
NDP
David Christopherson NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
Thank you.
Mr. Molson, what do you know of this? And please, a fulsome answer.
5:15 p.m.
As an Individual
I had no involvement in the insurance side of things. The only thing I recall doing was looking at a letter or some kind of document for some wordsmithing. I think it was the agreement between the insurance committee and the PAC. I did some work on the numbers, the 60-40 split between--
5:15 p.m.
NDP
David Christopherson NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
Okay, I'm a little shy of time. I don't mean to be rude.
I'm going to ask you very pointedly, do you know anything at all about an attempt to get a fix in, and anything at all about the allegation that this report, this business case, was merely the vehicle to cover things off? Do you know anything about that at all?
5:15 p.m.
As an Individual
No, I know absolutely nothing about the outsourcing of insurance.
5:15 p.m.
As an Individual
Except for the agreement between the PAC and the insurance committee.
