Public Accounts Committee on June 8th, 2006

[John Williams, Conservative, Edmonton—St. Albert, AB]

You obviously asked for what happened to the $23 million—how to account for the $23 million. You asked “what are the amounts that need to be recorded as a charge”. That's a fairly general, open-ended question that you asked. You didn't get the answer to what you asked for, if this is true, yet you accepted it. It seems fairly sloppy to me, Ms. Bloodworth.

[Margaret Bloodworth]

I guess I don't agree with the premise of the question.

[John Williams, Conservative, Edmonton—St. Albert, AB]

You don't agree with the premise of the question.

Then we have verbal agreements that are written down by one side of the transaction, and then somebody says it's not a contract. We also have this statement here, the agreement in principle, with no dates. Is this how you run your department?

[Margaret Bloodworth]

I was not involved in the agreement in principle, so I can't question it.

[John Williams, Conservative, Edmonton—St. Albert, AB]

No, no, but in your department, Ms. Bloodworth. Is this—

[Margaret Bloodworth]

No, not in my department, Mr. Williams, but in the Firearms Centre and the public works department.

[John Williams, Conservative, Edmonton—St. Albert, AB]

This is Public Works letterhead.

[Margaret Bloodworth]

Yes, and I'm not with Public Works.

[John Williams, Conservative, Edmonton—St. Albert, AB]

You were not with Public Works?

[Margaret Bloodworth]

I've never been with Public Works.

[John Williams, Conservative, Edmonton—St. Albert, AB]

Well, I find it rather extraordinary, Mr. Chairman, that they have gone through all kinds of contortions here to try to justify keeping Parliament in the dark. Mr. Pigeon says that “The hallmark of a 'debt' is that it is a claim of sum certain of money. Absent a legally binding and enforceable agreement, how could one ascertain what reasonable amount should be paid?” And yet all through the document, the figure is $23 million or thereabouts.

You knew exactly what you had agreed to. The department knew what it had agreed to. Why is there the big kerfuffle about whether this is a debt and so on? Why was it so important?

[Margaret Bloodworth]

Because, Mr. Williams, there were people proposing to change the accounting treatment from what had been the case before, so obviously it was not a clear-cut accounting issue, or presumably the accountants the year before would have done it in a clear-cut way or differently. So—

[John Williams, Conservative, Edmonton—St. Albert, AB]

Did the Auditor General point out the change?

[The Chair, Liberal, Shawn Murphy]

Let her continue her response.

Ms. Bloodworth.

[John Williams, Conservative, Edmonton—St. Albert, AB]

I thought she had finished.

[Margaret Bloodworth]

No, I was actually in the middle of a sentence.

So I knew the issue was not clear cut; I knew it was complicated, which was the very reason I wanted to make sure that all of those who might have had something valuable to add were at the meeting, and I also wanted to make sure that all options had been canvassed, which I consider my job.

[John Williams, Conservative, Edmonton—St. Albert, AB]

Okay, well, let me change tactics here a little bit.

Did you ever discuss this with a political minister?

[Margaret Bloodworth]

Not before the legal opinion. I believe I had a brief discussion with the minister's chief of staff, when it became apparent there was a possibility of supps.

[John Williams, Conservative, Edmonton—St. Albert, AB]

The legal opinion would have come down on around February 9, 2004.

[Margaret Bloodworth]

Yes, and as he makes clear, we knew his thinking before that—even by the Thursday. I don't recall, but I would say it was likely that I had some discussion at some point in those few days with the minister.

[John Williams, Conservative, Edmonton—St. Albert, AB]

Is that it?

[The Chair, Liberal, Shawn Murphy]

Yes, we're going to move on.

[John Williams, Conservative, Edmonton—St. Albert, AB]

I was just getting started, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Shawn Murphy]

You may have an opportunity to come back, I understand.

Mr. Bains, for eight minutes.

[Navdeep Bains, Liberal, Mississauga—Brampton South, ON]

Thank you very much, Chair.

I thank all the witnesses for coming out.

Ms. Bloodworth, I have a quick question. Could you just outline very briefly your experience in the public service and your background in terms of your experience or career thus far?