Evidence of meeting #23 for Public Accounts in the 39th Parliament, 2nd session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was farmers.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Deputy Minister, Department of Agriculture and Agri-Food
We wouldn't have that information.
Liberal
Charles Hubbard Liberal Miramichi, NB
Now this is getting even worse if it's only CAIS. They're not agriculture employees, they're CAIS employees. This is unbelievable.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Farm Financial Programs Branch, Department of Agriculture and Agri-Food
First of all, if any employee starts with the department, they are asked automatically to identify if they fill out anything, including that. As an example, when a new employee did start, I believe it was in this last year, they came in and said they had filled out CAIS forms in the past. We did send them back and told them they had to stop. When they came in, they had stopped previously. We do take care of it at the entry level.
Liberal
Charles Hubbard Liberal Miramichi, NB
I only have four minutes, ma'am. You say in terms of CAIS employees that there were fewer than 20. How many were working with other parts of the Department of Agriculture, federally or provincially?
Deputy Minister, Department of Agriculture and Agri-Food
We wouldn't have the information on provincial.
Deputy Minister, Department of Agriculture and Agri-Food
To our knowledge, nobody has said they were filling out forms.
Liberal
Charles Hubbard Liberal Miramichi, NB
It's unbelievable that a member of your department working on the program, being paid by our federal government, would be selling his or her services to.... It's unbelievable.
I'd like to go back to this business on provinces. CAIS covers the country, but could we get information, madam, from your department on how much CAIS money went to each province?
We're only dealing with about 55,000 applicants from the provinces that you administered directly. Could we get, for the committee, the number of producers by province and the amount of money that went out by province?
There's also interest in seeing the amounts in terms of categories: more than $50,000, more than $100,000, more than $1 million by province. It would be very relevant, Mr. Chair, to look at this program in total and to see the future. Hopefully you have a better program, but I can't believe this business on employees. Really, it's....
As for the employees, are those people still working in CAIS?
Deputy Minister, Department of Agriculture and Agri-Food
Some of them still are working there.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Shawn Murphy
Was there information you were looking for, Mr. Hubbard? You left things kind of dangling. Did you ask for information? I wasn't sure of your comment.
Liberal
Charles Hubbard Liberal Miramichi, NB
I would like to see the CAIS payments, directly or indirectly, by producers by province, to see how much each province got on CAIS. We're talking only about the 55,000 to the five provinces that are involved.
How many in New Brunswick benefited from CAIS?
Deputy Minister, Department of Agriculture and Agri-Food
Yes, it is available. We have some of the information you just asked for. Also, you're asking for a classification by size.
Deputy Minister, Department of Agriculture and Agri-Food
We will have to get a full chart for the committee.
I have one thing to say about the employees, sir. It's important to note this; it's an important fact. Most of the CAIS employees are seasonal employees. We hire them as the work peaks, then they leave the department, and then we hire them back. There is a time when they work for the government, and there's a time when they're not working for the government. Some of their activities were done in the time when they weren't working for the department.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Shawn Murphy
If you could clarify the understanding, Deputy, on this information, would two weeks be fine with you?
Deputy Minister, Department of Agriculture and Agri-Food
Absolutely, and we can get it to you faster.
Liberal
Liberal
Borys Wrzesnewskyj Liberal Etobicoke Centre, ON
You just said something that was potentially quite interesting. You said these are seasonal employees. Where are they hired? Are these people actually working within the agricultural sector? Are these some of the people who have farms or are working for some of the corporate farming interests and seasonally come to work for CAIS? Do you have that information?
Deputy Minister, Department of Agriculture and Agri-Food
We have that information. When you own a farm or you have a share on a farm, as per the conflict of interest guidelines you are supposed to declare that you have a farm or you have a share in a farm. That is declared, so we know.
Liberal
Borys Wrzesnewskyj Liberal Etobicoke Centre, ON
You declare, but that does not disqualify you from being one of the federally employed CAIS people.
Deputy Minister, Department of Agriculture and Agri-Food
No, being a farmer doesn't disqualify you from being a public servant, sir.
Liberal
Borys Wrzesnewskyj Liberal Etobicoke Centre, ON
There is a potential conflict there in that being a farmer from a region, you're actually reviewing the CAIS program applications of your neighbours, perhaps, or even your own farm. Is that correct? How is that potential for abuse prevented?
Deputy Minister, Department of Agriculture and Agri-Food
We count on the integrity of our employees. We have regional offices. One of our offices is in Regina. Regina is not a big city, and people in the farming community know each other.
But being a farmer doesn't disqualify you from being a public servant, sir, as long as you conduct your business in the appropriate way.