Evidence of meeting #23 for Public Accounts in the 39th Parliament, 2nd session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was farmers.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Shawn Murphy
Thank you very much, Mr. Wrzesnewskyj.
Mr. Poilievre, for four minutes.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON
You indicated that there are around 600 federal employees working with the CAIS program year round.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Farm Financial Programs Branch, Department of Agriculture and Agri-Food
Our current number is 675. However, that is how many people work in the farm income programs directorate, which delivers CAIS, where Canada delivers.
In terms of a second question you asked, we also deliver the AgriInvest. We will be delivering AgriInvest everywhere in Canada other than in Quebec. We're working right now with financial institutions to implement that in the fall, as the deputy said--
Assistant Deputy Minister, Farm Financial Programs Branch, Department of Agriculture and Agri-Food
These people do all of that.
Deputy Minister, Department of Agriculture and Agri-Food
It's the directorate.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Farm Financial Programs Branch, Department of Agriculture and Agri-Food
That whole directorate basically does AgriInvest and AgriStability, and they're the same ones who just did the $1 billion that government put out--the $400 million and $600 million. It's the same group that does all of that work.
Conservative
Brian Fitzpatrick Conservative Prince Albert, SK
In 2004, were they doing all of that as well, or were they just doing CAIS?
Assistant Deputy Minister, Farm Financial Programs Branch, Department of Agriculture and Agri-Food
They would have been doing other programs. At the time they would have had the farm income program. They would have had CFIP at the time.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON
How many worked just on CAIS, or did they cross-pollinate and work in different areas?
Deputy Minister, Department of Agriculture and Agri-Food
It's cross-pollinated, partly because we have to use the data from one program on the other. It's a whole system that we're running.
Conservative
Deputy Minister, Department of Agriculture and Agri-Food
We have their administrative costs. We don't have their staff levels.
Conservative
Deputy Minister, Department of Agriculture and Agri-Food
Let me take the year of the audit, 2004-05. Where Canada delivered, it was $46 million, and in the other jurisdictions it was $13 million, $10 million, $18 million.
Conservative
Deputy Minister, Department of Agriculture and Agri-Food
At the time, in 2004-05, it was $89 million.
Conservative
Deputy Minister, Department of Agriculture and Agri-Food
Yes, at the time of the audit.
Conservative
Deputy Minister, Department of Agriculture and Agri-Food
In the 2004 year, it was around $1.4 billion.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON
Does that not seem to you to be a high administration cost, $89 million out of $1.4 billion?
Deputy Minister, Department of Agriculture and Agri-Food
As indicated, the program is complicated, partly because we look at the margins of every farm operation. They submit information around what their inventories are, what their incomes have been, what they have grown, and what they have changed--
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON
What does that ratio work out to? My human calculator is not fast enough.
Deputy Minister, Department of Agriculture and Agri-Food
I don't have my calculator....
It's around 7.5% or 8%.