Public Accounts Committee on March 31st, 2022

[Chris Forbes]

Thank you for the question.

The general policy of the temporary foreign worker program falls under the responsibility of Mr. Tremblay and his team. However, we're in regular contact and we can share our views.

[Brenda Shanahan, Liberal, Châteauguay—Lacolle, QC]

Mr. Forbes, do you think that a one‑stop shop for the agriculture sector would be helpful?

[Chris Forbes]

Perhaps a one‑stop shop would help us improve our ad hoc services for producers. This matters to them. We're working closely with our colleagues here today to ensure that we're providing good services to our agriculture and agri‑food sector customers.

[Brenda Shanahan, Liberal, Châteauguay—Lacolle, QC]

That's wonderful. Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

I'm sorry, Mrs. Shanahan, but your time is up. Things are moving quickly today.

I'll now give the floor to Ms. Sinclair‑Desgagné for two and a half minutes.

[Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné, Bloc, Terrebonne, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Earlier, when answering questions from my colleague Mr. Duncan about mutual understanding and the coordination involving the various authorities and levels of government, but also the various departments that must work together in these types of cases, Ms. Hogan described the authorities' coordination issues.

Ms. Hogan, could you elaborate on these issues?

[Karen Hogan]

It's always a bit complicated when multiple levels of government help manage a program for Canadians. We're seeing this here. The standards are set by provincial and municipal governments. There isn't any established national standard for improving housing conditions. However, a federal program monitors these conditions. We could see an enhancement of the minimum requirements for membership in the temporary foreign worker program or an improvement in the standards imposed by each province. Both levels could help improve living conditions.

[Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné, Bloc, Terrebonne, QC]

When speaking with partners in the agri‑food sector, some companies reported that they had major issues with finding temporary foreign workers because of processing delays at IRCC. Obviously, this isn't today's topic. However, there are long waiting periods for temporary foreign workers. Your report also shows issues with inspections, isolation measures, housing and payroll. Basically, there seems to be some issues with the management of temporary foreign workers at virtually every level.

I would support the idea of a one‑stop shop, as my colleague Mrs. Shanahan said. This would ensure that all the responsibilities fall under a single authority, such as Quebec's authority. That's exactly what we want.

I'll end on that note.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Thank you.

Mr. Desjarlais, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

You have a question on the floor.

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

Yes, that's correct. I did mention it previously, so this is just a reminder.

I'd actually like the Auditor General to respond to that question more directly.

I'm more satisfied with Deputy Minister Tremblay's statement related to his recognition of structural racism within the ministry and his commitment to do that—and I'll return to him—but I'm just surprised that our audits don't include very much information related to a gender-based analysis or a diversity inclusion analysis.

Would the Auditor General like to explain why the topics of racism and diversity inclusion are not present in this report, even though the deputy minister himself has recognized this, and the government as a whole?

[Karen Hogan]

I agree with you that the government as a whole, the Prime Minister himself, acknowledged that systemic racism exists in the federal public service and it exists in Canada. The issues that we saw were ones that were systemic problems across the organization that allowed our findings to happen.

All of our audits have started—and this is one of the first few—to look at gender-based analysis, diversity and inclusion, and to really hold departments to account for the actions and the commitments that have been made for many years now in order to improve how programs are delivered and how they're designed, and to ensure that no one is left behind.

Hopefully, you'll start to see that this is much more prevalent in our audits. But again, there's only so much to do when there's nothing to audit, so we—

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

My time is quite limited, so just to be clear, there isn't a diversity inclusion analysis to identify structural racism within this report, yes or no?

[Karen Hogan]

No, there is not.

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

Thank you very much.

To the deputy minister, can you describe what plans you have to ensure that we can understand how racism plays a role in the structures through this department? What assurances can you give Canadians that this is truly recognized? What plans do you have in place to make sure we prevent structural racism from continuing?

[Jean-François Tremblay]

We have, inside the department, groups of visible minorities represented. We integrate GBA+ systematically into all of our policy analysis, policy development and policy implementation.

As you know, we do have recruitment. We look at our numbers and how we perform on EE numbers, making sure that we actually meet or exceed the standards. We look at all levels of the hierarchy because, as you know, sometimes we recruit people at the bottom, but we have difficulties promoting them, so this is something we also tackle. We provide training. We provide leadership courses. We look at the numbers to see what we can actually do to improve the situation.

I'm pleased to say that we have numbers that are higher than what the labour availability is telling us, but that's not enough. We will continue on that track.

The most important thing I would add—and you know this better than I do—is that it's about changing the culture. That's something that takes more time. It takes a dedicated effort from everybody in the department.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Thank you.

I want to thank all of our witnesses for appearing today. We covered a lot of questions, and I do appreciate your responses and your working with this committee to explore this.

On Tuesday, we will be meeting on “Report 15: Enforcement of Quarantine and COVID-19 Testing Orders—Public Health Agency of Canada”.

Mr. Duncan, if you have something to say, can you keep it brief, please?

[Eric Duncan, Conservative, Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, ON]

Just briefly, I want to thank the witnesses for being here today.

I have several more questions. I just want to flag to the leadership of the committee that perhaps in our committee business and subsequent meetings we could consider this. I know through our list.... I know Mr. Epp has a few more as well on that. Flagging it was helpful today, but I know I have a few more, and there's a lot to go through in this report.

I just want to leave it at that. I don't want to put it on official notice or anything.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Okay, we'll consider that at future—

[Eric Duncan, Conservative, Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, ON]

While the witnesses are here, we might come back and ask.... I thought it would be fair to say that now, but I do respect—

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

That is not an official invitation.

[Eric Duncan, Conservative, Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, ON]

Exactly.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

We will consider this.

With your consent, I will adjourn the meeting.

Again, thank you to the witnesses today.

I see no objection, so the meeting is adjourned.

Thank you very much.