Public Accounts Committee on Oct. 7th, 2024

[Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné, Bloc, Terrebonne, QC]

Thank you very much.

You said that a number of companies were supposed to receive funding and that your mandate was to transition programming to NRC and the Canada Innovation Corporation. It's very important to point out that we have no guarantees that the SDTC funding being transferred to NRC and the Canada Innovation Corporation will be used to fund clean green technology. The Privy Council Office is no longer in a position to provide that assurance.

What do you know about that? Can you guarantee that future funding granted to companies will support clean green technology?

[Marta Morgan]

Decisions around the funding are not made by the board of SDTC. Those questions would be better directed to the government departments involved.

[Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné, Bloc, Terrebonne, QC]

If I understand correctly, you're taking care of the transition, but you don't know what future funding will be used for.

[Marta Morgan]

We expect that NRC will receive funding that will enable it to take over the programs of the NRC, but the nature and the timing of those decisions are not the responsibility of the board of SDTC.

[Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné, Bloc, Terrebonne, QC]

Very well.

That's not at all conclusive, since you've been on the board for four months now. When a transition is taking place, it's important to know that the funding that was being handled by SDTC will be used to achieve the worthwhile goals of SDTC. Developing clean green technologies, and helping start-ups and small and medium-sized businesses are worthwhile goals.

Those businesses need that kind of funding, so it's important that the funding previously allocated to SDTC be used for the same purpose. However, you can't provide any guarantees of that today. Is that what you're telling me?

[Marta Morgan]

We expect that funding will be available to the NRC. Obviously, that's an important part of the transition, as the member has noted. That would be more the subject of government departments to confirm.

[Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné, Bloc, Terrebonne, QC]

Thank you.

I have a short question having to do with this whole affair. Considering everything that has happened, the Auditor General's report and the dissolution of SDTC, will you finally apologize to the whistle-blowers who, at tremendous risk to themselves, did their job and exposed the appalling state of affairs at SDTC to Quebeckers and Canadians?

[Marta Morgan]

Our focus as a board is on the people at SDTC and ensuring a fair process of transition for them to the NRC.

[Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné, Bloc, Terrebonne, QC]

The answer is no, then. The whistle-blowers won't be getting an apology.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Thank you very much.

Ms. Sinclair‑Desgagné, your time is up.

We now go to Mr. Desjarlais for two and a half minutes.

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I want to touch on the subject of my previous colleague. You said earlier in this meeting that it's about people and a smooth transition to the NRC. In regard to the SDTC working group folks who are responsible for much of the innovation and support at SDTC, these are folks who were needed across the country. The competitive landscape for these kinds of professionals is extreme.

We've learned this throughout issues with ArriveCAN, for example. When the government doesn't have people of expertise in the technology development sector, it ends up going to private companies. Those private companies then get involved in a myriad of procurement issues, as we've discovered through ArriveCAN.

I'm really happy to know that this is being transitioned to the NRC, as a matter of fact, because many of the employees at NRC are unionized. They're Public Service Alliance employees, and I'm really looking forward to ensuring that those employees are well protected. I'm not confident, of course, by the lines of my questioning, that that has taken place thus far.

When will the employees of SDTC know if they've been offered a position at the National Research Council?

[Marta Morgan]

We expect that information to be able to be provided to employees within the coming months. We don't have an exact date at this point, but we're working with the NRC to do that as quickly as possible exactly to retain the talent and to give the employees assurance and some confidence in the future.

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

I'd say months is probably too long for that. A lot of people have to pay rent. A lot of people have to live in this economy, and waiting and waiting isn't good enough for those employees.

Will they receive an equal or higher salary?

[Marta Morgan]

Those details are being worked out right now through working groups that have been set up by SDTC and NRC to work together on those issues.

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

The Treasury Board has issued a requirement for employees to return to work. Will the prior contracts between employees and SDTC in relation to remote contracts be honoured?

[Marta Morgan]

I would expect that SDTC employees would become members of the union and that their positions would be associated with the NRC and subject to the employment conditions of the NRC when they're transferred

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

That means they won't.

[Marta Morgan]

I would expect that they would be subject to the conditions of the NRC; however, all of those details are under discussion right now between the NRC and SDTC.

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

Would you support, in the transition, a recommendation by your board to suggest that the contracts between SDTC and those employees who receive remote contracts—like indigenous employees in northern communities or rural or remote workers—will ensure they continue to work for the public service? Would you recommend that?

[Marta Morgan]

We're focused on ensuring fairness for employees, on encouraging employees to move from SDTC to NRC, to keeping that talent—

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

The best encouragement is honouring the word of SDTC. Will you honour the workplace contracts between the employees of SDTC if they transition to the NRC?

[Marta Morgan]

All of these issues need to be worked out with the NRC, as the SDTC employees will be moving to a new—

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

Ms. Morgan, that's probably my time.

Moral courage is required to protect these workers in our economy.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Mr. Desjarlais, I'm afraid that is your time.

Up next we have Mr. Perkins for five minutes, please.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'll start off this round by tabling a motion and then speaking to it, Mr. Chair.

I think the clerk has the motion on the books.