Public Accounts Committee on Oct. 30th, 2024

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Former Liberal minister Bains, you were in Ottawa this past Sunday. When did you leave Ottawa?

[Navdeep Bains]

I left Ottawa yesterday.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

While you were in Ottawa for approximately three days, did you meet with any government officials, elected or non-elected?

[Navdeep Bains]

Yes, I did.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Whom did you meet with?

[Navdeep Bains]

I met with my former colleagues Mark Holland, Gary Anandasangaree and Omar Alghabra. We were celebrating Mark Holland's 50th birthday.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Did you meet with any non-elected officials?

[Navdeep Bains]

I met with chief of staff to the Prime Minister Katie Telford and with Andrew Bevan.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

In meeting with Katie Telford and Andrew Bevan, did you discuss the content of your testimony today?

[Navdeep Bains]

No, I did not.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Were you provided any material from Katie Telford, Andrew Bevan or any other non-elected official or elected official to refresh your memory with respect to evidence that you're giving today?

[Navdeep Bains]

No, I did not receive such information.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

This is now your third appearance at this particular committee to discuss your involvement in the SDTC green slush fund.

Are you to inform this committee and Canadians that, given the passage of time, you were not provided, nor did you seek, any material to aid you in the recollection of important details with respect to your failed ministerial responsibilities toward SDTC?

Is that what you want this committee and Canadians to believe?

[Navdeep Bains]

Just to clarify, are you referring to my trip to Ottawa?

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

I'm asking whether, through all the times that you've appeared, and not just your recent three-day sojourn in Ottawa, have you not received or have you not sought out material to aid you in your testimony? I'm talking about in advance of all of your appearances.

[Navdeep Bains]

No, the information that exists is in the public domain—with the Auditor General's report, for example.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

We have learned that in the past, former government officials were paid with taxpayer dollars to prepare for upcoming committee meetings, even while they were being briefed by government officials.

Former Liberal minister Bains, has the government paid you in any capacity to be here today and for your former two appearances at this particular committee?

[Navdeep Bains]

Could you repeat that again?

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

How much has the government paid you, sir, for your time testifying today, preparing for today, and for the other two appearances at this committee? How much? Just provide the number, please.

[Navdeep Bains]

Zero.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Thank you. That is the time.

Just for the record—I didn't correct this earlier because I know Mr. Bains is aware—this is Mr. Bains' second appearance at this committee. He's also appeared at another parliamentary committee.

Mr. Erskine-Smith, you have the floor now for five minutes, please.

[Nathaniel Erskine-Smith, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

Thanks very much.

Mr. Cooper referred to the Ethics Commissioner's report. I think it's useful, Mr. Bains, to go over that a little, because in one paragraph in relation to Ms. Verschuren's appointment to the board of SDTC, it says, “Ms. Verschuren was contacted by staff in the Office of the Minister of Innovation, Science and Industry in April 2019 to discuss the possibility of being appointed as Chairperson of SDTC.” It doesn't say that you were the individual reaching out, although that's the allegation that the Conservatives have made today and, irresponsibly, many times before that.

To your recollection, I think you've said, just so I'm clear, that you don't recall reaching out, and the Ethics Commissioner's report says that it was your staff that reached out.

Are you aware of who reached out?

[Navdeep Bains]

Again, as I said, I don't recall such conversations. However, it's not uncommon for me or my staff or others to reach out to a number of people to apply for a number of roles. In some instances, I'd like to tell this committee that we would ask multiple people to apply for the same role, because the idea was that we wanted more people to apply.

This was a new process, and so it was very different from what was done in the past. The whole objective was to encourage a greater pool of applicants. In this particular instance, as the PCO officials indicated, over 100 people did apply. Ultimately that's what we wanted. We wanted more people to apply, not fewer.

[Nathaniel Erskine-Smith, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

Mr. Bains, just on that, were you friends with Ms. Verschuren beforehand? Did you know her beforehand?

I mean, she obviously has a record in the Conservative Party. She has a public record you have already identified—I don't need you to run through it—as a business leader and as an appointee of the Harper government.

Were you friends with her beforehand?

[Navdeep Bains]

No, we weren't friends. She did some work with Minister Paradis on the STIC committee. When I became a minister, I was introduced to her in that capacity, but I had no such prior relationship with her.