Evidence of meeting #70 for Public Accounts in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was rosenberg.
A video is available from Parliament.
12:20 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Williamson
Thank you.
Ms. Sinclair‑Desgagné, go ahead. You have two and a half minutes.
12:20 p.m.
Bloc
Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné Bloc Terrebonne, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I want to continue along the same lines as before, Mr. Rosenberg.
We were talking about how your employees reportedly did something that could have cost the Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation its charitable status under the Canada Revenue Agency Act.
12:20 p.m.
Bloc
Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné Bloc Terrebonne, QC
You don't agree with the fact that the foundation wasn't allowed to take donations from one person and issue the tax receipt to a company.
12:20 p.m.
As an Individual
The company made the donation, so the tax receipt was issued in the company's name. If there is any confusion about that, an independent person or the CRA should look into the matter.
12:20 p.m.
Bloc
Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné Bloc Terrebonne, QC
I'm asking you, Mr. Rosenberg.
Mr. Johnson told us that he would send us the documents, including the bank statements showing that the donations were received and the amounts of the donations, as well as the tax receipts. If you could push to have those documents provided to the committee as soon as possible, it may give the committee some clarity on what took place.
12:20 p.m.
As an Individual
That is the responsibility of Mr. Johnson, the chair of the foundation's board. I don't have access to the foundation's documents.
12:20 p.m.
Bloc
Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné Bloc Terrebonne, QC
Yes, I understand that. You agree, at least, that the committee should be able to see them.
I repeat, here's what we've found: the donations received by the foundation were made by specific donors in China, but the tax receipt was issued to Millennium Golden Eagle International, as per clear direction from Beijing to staff members of the Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation. At this point, that's what we presume happened.
12:20 p.m.
As an Individual
There are two ways to look at it. You can see it as a conspiracy, or you can see it as common practice. Unfortunately, I think there's a lot of confusion surrounding the matter, so the documents should be examined and a tax expert should determine what's what.
12:20 p.m.
Bloc
Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné Bloc Terrebonne, QC
Yes.
You can say it's a conspiracy theory if you want, but there's something called the law, which you are very familiar with as a lawyer. You are not allowed—
12:20 p.m.
Bloc
Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné Bloc Terrebonne, QC
No, but the law clearly states that the name listed on the tax receipt must be the name of the donor. It's pretty straightforward. It's says so in black and white. There's no conspiracy theory here, and for that matter, I would refrain from bringing up conspiracy theories given the allegations against you.
Now—
12:20 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Williamson
You're out of time, Ms. Sinclair‑Desgagné.
Mr. Desjarlais, you have the floor for two and a half minutes. Go ahead, please.
12:20 p.m.
NDP
Blake Desjarlais NDP Edmonton Griesbach, AB
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair, and thank you to all the witnesses for being present here.
Mr. Chair, on a point of clarification—and I'm not sure if I can have my time restored—how many rounds are we having?
12:20 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Williamson
I think you should get another one after this, Mr. Desjarlais.
12:20 p.m.
NDP
Blake Desjarlais NDP Edmonton Griesbach, AB
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Rosenberg, you mentioned in your answer to some of our Liberal colleagues the nature of some of your operations, both when you were the CEO of the Trudeau Foundation and, of course, when you were deputy minister. You spoke about some of the practices you engaged in as a deputy minister for the government, in particular in response to the question of partisanship of Conservative staff members and Liberal staff members. You mentioned that there was an aptitude for members of both of those parties to be affiliated with the government, even if they weren't part of the governing party, and that you hired them.
As part of our study here investigating the Trudeau Foundation, I believe it's important to talk about some of the corporate cultural practices. As a new member of Parliament, I find there is a great difference in the cultures of many parties. In particular, I have seen in the past, this tradition among both Liberals and Conservatives of having staff members—in particular, partisan staff members—go between the two and oftentimes between organizations they're also affiliated with.
During your time as the CEO of the Trudeau Foundation, did you also employ staff members of the Liberal and/or Conservative parties?
12:20 p.m.
As an Individual
I don't think so, to my knowledge. It's not that I wouldn't have, but it wouldn't have been because they were Liberals or Conservatives. As far as I know, the staff at the foundation was pretty apolitical.
12:20 p.m.
NDP
Blake Desjarlais NDP Edmonton Griesbach, AB
In terms of your work as a deputy minister, though, you've identified credibility in that assertion of hiring staff members from both the Liberals and the Conservatives, so understanding that—
12:20 p.m.
As an Individual
It's a different job. Credibility in the context of the government—
12:20 p.m.
NDP
Blake Desjarlais NDP Edmonton Griesbach, AB
Oh, it's not a different job, as a matter of fact, Mr. Rosenberg. You just heard testimony today—and you're in Parliament right now—regarding an investigation of foreign interference and the participation of the Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation.
Mr. Rosenberg, it's not out of the question or unreasonable to ask why or how members of the Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation and members of these parties are connected. To say they're apolitical, especially when you've just given testimony to the fact that, as a deputy minister, you did that....
Mr. Rosenberg, let me ask again, and I hope you can see how serious this is. I know you're smiling right now, but I need to have the credibility of your remarks to understand how the Trudeau Foundation and its culture and the connection it has with Canadian partisanship to the point that foreign interference could exist.... I need you to answer the question. If you don't know—
12:25 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Williamson
Thank you, Mr. Desjarlais. I'm going to let Mr. Rosenberg provide an answer.
12:25 p.m.
As an Individual
I'm not even sure of the question. Are you asking me whether staff at the foundation were politically affiliated? The answer, as far as I know, is no.