Thank you.
Evidence of meeting #36 for Public Safety and National Security in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was rcmp.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #36 for Public Safety and National Security in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was rcmp.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:35 p.m.
C/Supt Bob Paulson
I'd like to add something, if I may. There again you suggested that they were secret documents. The actual classification level of those documents is not entirely clear at this point, and that needs to be understood.
I just want to put that condition on the answer.
4:35 p.m.
C/Supt Bob Paulson
No, I cannot, but I'm suggesting to you that neither can you tell us what they are.
4:35 p.m.
Liberal
Ujjal Dosanjh Liberal Vancouver South, BC
That's why I used the word “secret” rather than level one, level two, or level three.
4:35 p.m.
C/Supt Bob Paulson
Right. Well, “secret” has a number of connotations in terms of the security clearance on a document, with respect, sir.
4:35 p.m.
Bloc
Serge Ménard Bloc Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC
If I understand correctly, since you are responsible for security at the highest level, if a security risk arose and was relevant enough, as you said, you would consider it your duty to notify the Prime Minister's Office. Is that correct?
4:35 p.m.
A/Commr Raf Souccar
Not the Prime Minister's Office, the Privy Council Office.
4:35 p.m.
A/Commr Raf Souccar
That's correct.
4:35 p.m.
Bloc
Serge Ménard Bloc Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC
A number of types of relationships can be established between politicians and all kinds of people, the most intimate being equivalent of a matrimonial relationship.
4:35 p.m.
A/Commr Raf Souccar
Yes, exactly.
4:35 p.m.
Bloc
Serge Ménard Bloc Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC
Ministers are definitely called upon to work at home or in hotel rooms that they share, and they necessarily have conversations without thinking about security, don't they?
4:35 p.m.
A/Commr Raf Souccar
I follow you.
4:35 p.m.
Bloc
Serge Ménard Bloc Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC
Let's admit that someone has had ongoing and significant relationships over a number of years with members of organized crime. Do you think that, if a minister who is not aware of that begins to have intimate relations with that person, he should be informed of the risk he might be running?
4:35 p.m.
A/Commr Raf Souccar
Mr. Ménard, if a situation such as the one you're describing is brought to my attention, the first thing that should be done is... I'm going to continue in English, if that doesn't bother you, so I can respond more precisely.
I would want first to check for the relevancy of what it is that has come to my attention, the accuracy and reliability of what it is. I will not be guided simply by media reports or innuendos. I would do my own research, if you will, and if it were relevant, if it were reliable, if it were accurate, yes, I would bring it to the attention of PCO.
4:40 p.m.
Bloc
Serge Ménard Bloc Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC
That's exactly what I wanted to get at. For that purpose, you can consult criminal intelligence data bases, can't you?
4:40 p.m.
A/Commr Raf Souccar
Yes, absolutely.
4:40 p.m.
Bloc
Serge Ménard Bloc Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC
Particularly in the case of bikers in Quebec, the criminal intelligence data bases on bikers and their relations include the intelligence of the Sûreté du Québec, the RCMP and the Montreal police. That's what enabled the Carcajou squad to achieve the results it did. Isn't that correct?
4:40 p.m.
A/Commr Raf Souccar
That's correct.
4:40 p.m.
C/Supt Bob Paulson
I'd like to add something else. As the deputy commissioner said a few minutes ago, a number of options are open to us when we are given information. We can conduct an investigation, notify the Privy Council Office, monitor the situation or do nothing at all, based on our assessment of the information—
4:40 p.m.
Bloc
Serge Ménard Bloc Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC
Pardon me, Mr. Paulson, but we don't have the time to examine hypothetical situations.
But we do have one clear case. We're talking about someone who had sustained intimate relationships over a long period of time with various members of organized crime, as you know. A minister who starts a relationship with that person runs certain risks. Do you agree with me?
