Evidence of meeting #39 for Public Safety and National Security in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was corrections.
A recording is available from Parliament.
11:45 a.m.
D/Commr Marc-Arthur Hyppolite
As you know, the institutions are built in a way that reflects Canadian values. The principles of our mission are very clear on that point. The concepts of rehabilitation and treatment of offenders are very clear in a country as civilized as ours.
11:45 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Garry Breitkreuz
Thank you very much.
Mr. Davies, you may have seven minutes.
11:45 a.m.
NDP
Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
First I'd like to preface my comments by saying that I believe there are some good things going on in our corrections system, and I applaud you for those. I also want to make it clear that I think there are a lot of very good intentions and extremely committed people within our corrections system. I want to be clear on that, because we tend to focus on what's bad, and there are some positive things going on.
Having said that, I think it's more productive for us to focus on where we're falling short. I'm going to give you a couple of quotes from Mr. Sapers' report and ask for your comments. He says:
...I continue to be disappointed by the very slow pace of change and by the lack of real, demonstrable improvements in the delivery and quality of care and services available to offenders with mental disorders. As I have noted before, the problem is not one of poor intentions, but rather capacity of the system to respond, adapt and adjust. The overall situation of offenders with mental health disorders has not significantly improved since my office first reported on this troubling situation back in 2004.
Could I ask for your comment on that? Is Mr. Sapers wrong or right, or what would you have to say?
11:50 a.m.
D/Commr Marc-Arthur Hyppolite
In terms of recognizing that mental health issues are serious challenges for the Correctional Service of Canada, we agree with Mr. Saper on this. Where we disagree is where he says that no progress has been made.
Since 2002 the Correctional Service of Canada has been working very aggressively on a comprehensive mental health strategy, and we are actually in the process of completing the vast majority of the phases of this mental health strategy.
When an offender arrives at an institution, and previously he was self-reporting on the issues, we have instituted a computerized assessment process whereby we can quickly identify the issues of mental health. And from that, the taking charge of that offender occurs. The correctional plan and the healing plan of that person is developed, which identifies what kinds of interventions are required.
Of course we are challenged, particularly in the area of retention and recruitment of mental health professionals. We are developing in terms of human resources a very aggressive recruitment process, but we do have some retention issues. We have enhanced the capacity of the regional treatment centres and we have almost multiplied the number of contracts we have with mental health professionals.
We also engage in many horizontal approaches with our partners and stakeholders. The issue of mental health has been discussed with the head of corrections in territorial governments, for example. We are in a constant search for best practices. The commission for mental health, chaired by--
11:50 a.m.
NDP
Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC
Sir, I'm going to interrupt you, because I have limited time. You had a chance to give your speech. I want to focus on certain things.
The problem, sir, is that what you're saying here is not matching the reality of what's happening in prisons. When I go to prisons, and I've been to eight of them in the last two months, I'm told by everybody--inmates, the professionals who work there--that there is not adequate diagnosis or assessment when people are entering prisons. There is not adequate counselling that's going on. In fact, just about every person I talked to said there's almost virtually a complete absence in our prison system of counselling. People want one-on-one mental health therapeutic counselling on a weekly, bi-weekly, or monthly basis, and they're not getting it.
I'm told there are 40% vacancies in British Columbia for counsellors, occupational therapists, and substance abuse counsellors. That tells me, sir, that despite all the talk and the speaking to people, whatever, on the ground, in our prisons, prisoners are not getting the mental health services delivered to them. What's your comment on that?
11:50 a.m.
D/Commr Marc-Arthur Hyppolite
I would recognize we probably have some challenges in some areas, but I am not aware of any specific offender who's been diagnosed for mental health issues whose needs have not been attended to. Where we do not have, on site, a professional--for example, if someone quits--we have the capacity to recruit people from the community to come in and give the services.
While we could probably improve in many areas, I have to tell you there's a comprehensive service that exists from the beginning of the admission of the offender and then into the community and the continuum of care of that mental offender.
In fact, I can tell you that after the offender has done their time, we have established in the community what we call discharge planning, whereby before the mental offender is released there is a complete strategy, which also includes a circle of support in the community, and the offender is connected to resources in the community that can provide the needs and the services that the offender needs with respect to mental health.
11:55 a.m.
NDP
Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC
Okay. I want to now move a little bit to the situation with women. My information is that Canada is one of the only major countries of the world that does not have an official mother-and-child program in our prisons. I'm also told that can be very effective for women in prison. Often the biggest motivation for women is to re-establish connections with their children. I'm told that 28 countries have programs to have kids in prison and that Canada is falling short in that respect.
I wonder if you have any advice or thoughts on that issue.
11:55 a.m.
D/Commr Elizabeth Van Allen
In fact, with respect to a mother-and-child program in our five regional women's facilities, we do have that program. We made a few changes to it about two years ago, but the program is there. It does exist and it's available to women.
11:55 a.m.
NDP
Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC
Can I ask you how many children are in that program in the country?
11:55 a.m.
D/Commr Elizabeth Van Allen
I'm only speaking on behalf of the federal offenders. Since its inception, there has never been a large number of women who have taken advantage of the program.
11:55 a.m.
D/Commr Elizabeth Van Allen
You can ask, but--
11:55 a.m.
D/Commr Elizabeth Van Allen
--to be honest with you, I don't know why that is. However, right now--and I can verify this for you--I believe we have only one person participating in the program.
11:55 a.m.
NDP
Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC
That's my understanding. In this country, to say we have a program for mothers and children, and to have one child in the country, tells me.... I mean, we're one away from having no program at all. That's something I would suggest we could look at.
I want to talk about segregation quickly.
I'm out of time?
11:55 a.m.
Conservative
11:55 a.m.
Conservative
Shelly Glover Conservative Saint Boniface, MB
Welcome to all the witnesses. It's an honour to meet you.
I'm going to follow on what Mr. Davies brought up, because I am interested in knowing how we are effecting some improvements with relation to women and their children.
I ask if you actively promote the relationship between the female offender and her children outside of the facility. Do you actively promote that?
11:55 a.m.
D/Commr Elizabeth Van Allen
We offer programs with respect to parenting for the women. The whole decision around whether or not the child remains with the mother is based on what's in the best interest of the child. The community is involved in the entire process when making that decision; it's not only the CSC. The provincial child services people are involved in making an assessment, are involved in that decision, and it is taken into consideration when a decision is made. Obviously, we want to encourage that relationship between a mother and her child.
With some of the announced changes that were made to the program a couple of years ago.... Perhaps CSC could do a better job of speaking out to the institutions in terms of making sure everybody understands that the program is alive and is there, is available to women offenders who have come into custody with children, and that program is available.
11:55 a.m.
Conservative
Shelly Glover Conservative Saint Boniface, MB
That's good to hear. I know for a fact it is encouraged, simply because my mother worked her entire career in a correctional facility.
I am also glad you brought up the fact that the interests of the child must be considered. Without that piece of it, we don't see a full picture. We could, in fact, be placing children at risk if it is not part of the assessment program. So thank you for clarifying that.
I also want to touch on what you said in your dissertation about maintenance programs in the community, because we all know that as long as they are receiving treatment and they're receiving programming in institutions.... What happens when they leave the institution? Recidivism, falling back into addiction, and those kinds of situations do happen. What maintenance programs do you have, since you touched on it in your speech?
11:55 a.m.
D/Commr Elizabeth Van Allen
The thing about programs in the community is.... The challenge with women offenders, of course, is that they're geographically dispersed and their numbers are smaller. It presents greater challenges for us.
We have a maintenance program with respect to substance abuse that we can deliver to the women in the community. We try to deliver it in smaller numbers, if that's what the requirement takes. We also try to work with our partners in the community to get the services that our women need.
Noon
D/Commr Elizabeth Van Allen
Partners like the Elizabeth Fry Society, the John Howard Society, and then we try to hook them up with the services that exist in the communities as well.
Noon
D/Commr Elizabeth Van Allen
That's a big part of discharge planning with our offenders, when they're in an institution, to try to work with....
With some of our challenging cases, the institution in fact works closely with the parole staff who are preparing for an offender to return to the community, determining the needs of that particular offender and what's required in the community, and putting in place the appropriate service and support for that offender. Where we can, we work with our partners and rely on them.
In fact, there was one very recent challenging case in which we were able to put together a very good plan of support for the offender and work closely with the Elizabeth Fry people to help the woman return to the community. I'm pleased to say that she successfully remains in the community, but it's not without challenges, of course.