Evidence of meeting #28 for Public Safety and National Security in the 40th Parliament, 3rd session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was fadden.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Marcel Proulx Liberal Hull—Aylmer, QC
Could you send us the names through the chair of the committee?
Director, Canadian Security Intelligence Service
If I can find the information, I will discuss it with my minister.
NDP
The Vice-Chair NDP Don Davies
I'm sorry, Monsieur Proulx, your seven minutes are up.
We'll now go to Madame Mourani for seven minutes.
Maria Mourani Bloc Ahuntsic, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Good morning, gentlemen.
Mr. Fadden, what is the national security advisor's name?
Director, Canadian Security Intelligence Service
Marie-Lucie Morin, Mr. Chair.
Bloc
Maria Mourani Bloc Ahuntsic, QC
You say in your statement that you were at the Royal Canadian Military Institute and made a speech, that the CBC was there, and that you addressed the public, but that you did not think that you were being filmed. I must admit that I find it hard to believe that you knew the CBC was there, but you could not imagine that your speech would be filmed.
You also say in your statement that you made comments that would not normally be shared with the public. Yet, the CBC filmed it. So I do not understand. This is irrational thinking on the part of someone described as intelligent, rational and very responsible. I just don't understand.
Director, Canadian Security Intelligence Service
Mr. Chair, as I stated, I was fully aware that my speech was being filmed by the CBC. When I arrived, I was asked if I would agree to answer any questions. That was not part of my action plan and it is not something that I do on a regular basis. I delivered my speech and then they started asking me questions. I honestly forgot I was being filmed during the question period. It is as simple as that. As I have already said, I regret it. But I will repeat that I have said nothing that would put national security in jeopardy. My only regret is that my words were quoted. We have discussed it to death.
Mr. Chair, I was trying to hold a meeting with the military and police officers who were expecting some details. So I talked to them a little.
Bloc
Maria Mourani Bloc Ahuntsic, QC
Mr. Fadden, you are well aware of bringing a number of politicians into disrepute. By not naming anyone, by not naming any province, and since you are talking about provincial ministers, you are pointing a finger at all provinces and all ministers.
Are you aware that your comments affect all ministers, even though you mentioned two ministers in particular? Your allegations also concern municipal officials from British Columbia. You did not even provide any proof. You are just throwing things out there about foreign interference. Do you realize the fundamental impact this has on all politicians?
Director, Canadian Security Intelligence Service
Mr. Chair, I think your colleague is exaggerating a little. If foreign interference exists in Canada, we should ask ourselves where the source lies. It is not the guy who delivers letters or the guy who works at Metro. Clearly, it can be traced to Canada's politicians. That should not come as a surprise to anyone.
As I have already mentioned, I regret making the comments in public. I will not be doing that again in the future.
Bloc
Maria Mourani Bloc Ahuntsic, QC
Mr. Fadden, do you realize that your being sorry does not change the fact that a number of municipal officials from British Columbia and provincial ministers were affected by your comments? Unless you clarify the situation, everyone's reputation will be tainted.
Mr. Fadden, who are the current political traitors?
Director, Canadian Security Intelligence Service
Mr. Chair, Ms. Mourani uses a term that is completely inappropriate. This has nothing to do with treason or breaking the law. In my comments to Mr. Mansbridge, I said something like:
there may be some “general influence”.
It is far from being treason, control or corruption. Mr. Chair, your colleague is exaggerating. As I have already said, I regret making those comments. But we are not talking about treason. We are not even talking about breaking the law.
Bloc
Maria Mourani Bloc Ahuntsic, QC
But you talk about ministers and officials who work directly with foreign countries. You talk about foreign interference and influence that can have fundamental repercussions on Canadian democracy. So you are pointing the finger at people. You say they feel a stronger allegiance to their countries of origin than to Canada. So you define foreign influence in that way. You do not use the word “traitor”; I'm using it.
Director, Canadian Security Intelligence Service
That is not appropriate here.
Director, Canadian Security Intelligence Service
Absolutely not, Mr. Chair.
Bloc
Maria Mourani Bloc Ahuntsic, QC
You are not aware of it, and that's truly a shame. You are not aware of what you have done. That means that you are capable of doing the same thing you did in October, when you pointed your finger at the NGOs and the media for daring to talk about government policies on terrorism. That's what you are doing. Since October 2009, you have been making the exact same comments.
When you had the interview with the CBC, you still managed to come up with comments from who knows where. You do not want to specify who those ministers are. I am giving you the chance to do it. Mr. Fadden, who are these ministers who are guilty of treason?
Director, Canadian Security Intelligence Service
Mr. Chair, I wholeheartedly reject the implication of treason. We are not even talking about a breach of the law. In my answers to Mr. Mansbridge, I said that there was a certain influence. There is absolutely no question of treason or a breach of the law. Our primary concern in dealing with this matter is to ensure that Canadian decisions are made by Canadians. We want to protect Canadians. That is what we are trying to do.
Bloc
Maria Mourani Bloc Ahuntsic, QC
That is what you say. You talked about decisions made by Canadians for Canada, not for other countries.
Bloc
Director, Canadian Security Intelligence Service
Madam, there is a technical definition of “treason”, which you are not familiar with and which you are not using.
Bloc
Maria Mourani Bloc Ahuntsic, QC
Very well.
Mr. Fadden, did the Privy Council Office and the public safety minister know what you were going to talk about during your interview with the CBC?
Director, Canadian Security Intelligence Service
Mr. Chair, it is difficult to answer that question, but as I told Mr. Proulx, they were certainly aware of what I was going to do, and they approved my speech.
Bloc