Evidence of meeting #46 for Public Safety and National Security in the 40th Parliament, 3rd session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was fadden.
A recording is available from Parliament.
NDP
Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC
I have a point of order too. This committee has never questioned the extensive knowledge, experience, or—
NDP
Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC
Well, it is relevant, though, if Mr. MacKenzie is proceeding with an examination of 1982 to 1984 Jakarta, when we're here to talk about the Fadden inquiry—
Conservative
Dave MacKenzie Conservative Oxford, ON
I'm sorry if you don't want to know about the wealth of experience that this witness has, but I think we should all be proud of her experience.
I will ask the question. Your service to the country has, for the most part, been spent working on matters related to foreign affairs and security. Is that correct?
Former National Security Advisor to the Prime Minister and Associate Secretary to the Cabinet, As an Individual
Indeed, yes, and I have worked on economic issues as well.
Conservative
Dave MacKenzie Conservative Oxford, ON
In your opinion, how do the people of CSIS stack up against other intelligence agencies?
Former National Security Advisor to the Prime Minister and Associate Secretary to the Cabinet, As an Individual
My answer to that, Mr. Chairman, would be that they stack up excellently.
Conservative
Dave MacKenzie Conservative Oxford, ON
You've had a chance around the world to deal with foreign governments, and in some cases to deal with the security of foreign governments around the world.
Former National Security Advisor to the Prime Minister and Associate Secretary to the Cabinet, As an Individual
Indeed.
Conservative
Former National Security Advisor to the Prime Minister and Associate Secretary to the Cabinet, As an Individual
Absolutely, Mr. Chairman. In particular, over the last two years when I was national security advisor, I had the opportunity to interact with my counterparts in not only the United States but also Europe and many other countries--in Asia, Belize, and so on.
I would say that our security and intelligence community is absolutely the best of class, including, of course, CSIS.
Conservative
Dave MacKenzie Conservative Oxford, ON
During that period of time, you've worked for not only the current government but also the previous government, and you were appointed by both governments. Would that be correct?
Former National Security Advisor to the Prime Minister and Associate Secretary to the Cabinet, As an Individual
That is correct.
Conservative
Dave MacKenzie Conservative Oxford, ON
The relationship that you've been able to enjoy has been one of.... You tell us. In dealing with officials of both the previous government and the current government....
Former National Security Advisor to the Prime Minister and Associate Secretary to the Cabinet, As an Individual
I believe I have maintained a high degree of integrity. I have considered it to be a real privilege to serve Canada, particularly over the last seven years, before I left my current position in the ranks of deputy ministers. Not only do I believe that CSIS is an excellent institution, but I would also add that I believe the Canadian public service stands as a model when compared globally.
Conservative
Dave MacKenzie Conservative Oxford, ON
In dealing with this issue, my colleagues across the room have frequently talked about political interference. Having worked for both governments, can you tell me if you have experienced any political interference either from the current government or in the past from the previous government?
Former National Security Advisor to the Prime Minister and Associate Secretary to the Cabinet, As an Individual
Not that I recall at all.
Conservative
Former National Security Advisor to the Prime Minister and Associate Secretary to the Cabinet, As an Individual
Absolutely.
Conservative
Dave MacKenzie Conservative Oxford, ON
One of the things that we've talked about frequently in Canada is the oversight bodies that deal with CSIS. I know my time is running out here, but I would like to explore that a little bit later.
When you've been in other countries, do you know the kinds of oversight that agencies in those countries have and how their oversight compares to Canada's?
Former National Security Advisor to the Prime Minister and Associate Secretary to the Cabinet, As an Individual
I would say that the oversight structure that we have over our agencies, and in particular CSIS, are as rigorous as--and I would even say more rigorous than--those in many other countries, Mr. Chairman.
Conservative
Dave MacKenzie Conservative Oxford, ON
In this regard, it seems--and I have certainly heard it from Canadians--that the whole issue has been one of politicization. I wouldn't expect you to answer that.
In other countries, in your view--and maybe this is an unfair question--how would they deal with what this is perceived to be as an issue here?
Former National Security Advisor to the Prime Minister and Associate Secretary to the Cabinet, As an Individual
I mentioned previously that the specific issue of foreign interference is one that is well known in a great number of countries. I don't think it would come as a surprise if it were discussed. In fact, it is discussed quite openly in other countries.
I have had the chance to discuss it myself in my bilateral consultations. It certainly is not something that is unknown. It is a vulnerability that a great number of countries are experiencing.
