Public Safety Committee on Dec. 8th, 2010

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

If I understand it correctly, when he gave an interview to CBC, he spoke about specific cases without giving names, and you weren't aware of those specific cases.

[Marie-Lucie Morin]

I said that Mr. Fadden had told me that he had already held a briefing on those specific cases, and I think that it is clear that he had to issue a clarification saying that…

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

That wasn't the case.

[Marie-Lucie Morin]

… at that point, the file was incomplete.

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

These specific cases are currently in a report. You received it, as you said. Does the Prime Minister's Office support the report?

[Marie-Lucie Morin]

Mr. Chair, I don't think it's appropriate for me to share advice or reactions from ministers or the Prime Minister about any information file at all.

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

I'll admit, Ms. Morin, that this situation is very serious. The head of CSIS said that he submitted a report both to his Minister of Public Safety and to the Prime Minister through you and that the report discusses elected provincial officials, ministers from provinces and elected municipal officials who are also agents of influence of foreign countries. If he says something like that in a report, I, as a member of the public, am hugely concerned and, as a member of Parliament, am even more concerned thinking that these people are still there, that they are still in power.

What is the Prime Minister's Office doing? What actions are you going to take? If there really are agents of influence in departmental offices, the RCMP needs to investigate. These people need to be brought before the courts. However, if these allegations aren't founded, the Prime Minister's Office must act to restore the reputation of all those ministers and of all those elected officials in British Columbia who were slandered by broad, vast and vague allegations. What are you going to do?

[Marie-Lucie Morin]

Mr. Chair, we aren't talking about broad, vast allegations. I repeat, no shadow has been cast on all politicians. We are talking about specific cases. The service carried out its obligations, and the cases are closed.

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

I understand. My question is very specific: Will the RCMP conduct an investigation? Has there been a request for that?

[Marie-Lucie Morin]

I have no information establishing that the RCMP would conduct an investigation.

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

The fact that you have no information doesn't mean that the RCMP isn't conducting an investigation. You're not aware of one?

[Marie-Lucie Morin]

No, absolutely not.

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

I have one more question. Based on what you've told me, I understand that you and the Prime Minister's Office were not aware of the allegations that Mr. Fadden made when he granted an interview to CBC. Am I mistaken?

[Marie-Lucie Morin]

I will repeat that the issue of foreign influence is not new. I will repeat that this is one of the issues we deal with regularly in our discussions. Was I aware that this threat and vulnerability to Canada was present? Yes, I was aware of it.

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

But that wasn't my question.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Madam Mourani, your time is up. Were you finished with your answer?

All right. We'll come back now to the government.

Go ahead, Mr. MacKenzie.

[Dave MacKenzie, Conservative, Oxford, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Some of the questions seem to be a bit different, but it would be fair to say that when we host people here we expect they will try to influence us in some regard, as we would if we were in another country. It would not be in a subversive manner or in espionage or any of those things, but I think it's fair to say that even when we visit other countries on vacation on our personal time, we're either influenced or trying to influence.

Some of the things we've gone into here seem to be what most Canadians expect to happen on a day-to-day basis, not only in Canada but around the world.

[Marie-Lucie Morin]

I have worked in the realm of international relations for literally decades. In the conduct of international relations, It is absolutely normal that we seek to explain our point of view and at times make sure our interlocutors come to share our point of view about issues. All this is done in an overt manner in the normal course of bilateral relations.

I expect to be démarched in this regard by foreign interlocutors. I have démarched foreign interlocutors, hoping they would come around to my point of view. Those are not the kinds of activities we are talking about, very clearly.

[Dave MacKenzie, Conservative, Oxford, ON]

I think Mr. Fadden provided the committee with a letter dated August 31 to clarify some of the questions that had come up at the July 5 meeting. Have you had a chance to see that letter?

[Marie-Lucie Morin]

I have a copy of it here.

[Dave MacKenzie, Conservative, Oxford, ON]

He says in the second paragraph:...I can confirm that I had general discussions with the Minister about these two events prior to them taking place, and had received his approval to proceed. The speech I proposed to deliver at the RCMI was reviewed by staff in the Minister's office as well as the National Security Advisor's (NSA) Office. To be clear, the review did not include--obviously--any part of what was said during the question and answer period.

Is that an accurate statement from the perspective of your office?

[Marie-Lucie Morin]

Indeed.

[Dave MacKenzie, Conservative, Oxford, ON]

Okay.

Because Mr. Fadden was asked at our committee about CSIS appearing on television previously, he made it very clear that he did not give any off-the-record or background briefings to the CBC, but he also made it clear that his predecessor had hosted a CBC correspondent, Brian Stewart, in March 2009, so when Mr. Fadden appeared on the CBC, he was not the first to be there in the position he held.

[Marie-Lucie Morin]

That's correct.

[Dave MacKenzie, Conservative, Oxford, ON]

I suppose it's reasonable to say we expect, from time to time, that some of the heads of our agencies will appear in public.