Public Safety Committee on Feb. 15th, 2011

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

Let's say you don't get the 216 form. That's the question I'm asking you. You have two forms: the one that gives you the fingerprints, the 3801, which is another form, and you have the DNA.

Why don't you take that information into account? Why wait for a form? What act prevents you from keeping that information because you don't have the 216 form, since you have the fingerprints?

[Guylaine Dansereau]

Under the Identification of Criminals Act, we have to wait for that information. We are allowed to enter the information in the national repository when we have the person's fingerprints in connection with the charges that person is facing.

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

So you can't take into consideration the fingerprints from form 216.

[Guylaine Dansereau]

If they aren't obtained under the Criminal Code.

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

So if you receive the fingerprints through the 3801 form and you have all the information, you can't do it because it's not the 216 form.

[Guylaine Dansereau]

The information is still considered on hold, but it isn't entered in the criminal record.

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

Until you've received the 216 form. It's ultimately a matter of forms.

[Guylaine Dansereau]

On the other hand, they aren't rejected.

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

So it's a matter of forms.

[Guylaine Dansereau]

They aren't rejected.

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

But it is a matter of forms.

[Guylaine Dansereau]

It's a question of legality.

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

If you never receive the 216 form, that individual who was convicted by a court, which also ordered a DNA test to be done, will never be entered in your information. That will be because you haven't received the form.

[Guylaine Dansereau]

We conduct follow-up to obtain that information.

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

But if you don't get the form, you won't add the information. That's what I understand. That will be because you don't have the right form.

[Guylaine Dansereau]

No, it's not a matter of forms. The criminal's fingerprints have to be obtained.

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

But you've already received them with the 3801 form. Those fingerprints have been sent to you.

[Guylaine Dansereau]

xxxThey haven't been obtained in the context of a criminal investigation and related charges.

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

All right. As regards mixed offences, there are two forms, the 3800 and the 3801. One concerns DNA and the other fingerprints. What prevents you from putting all that together and opening a criminal record? Do you do that and, if not, why not? We're talking about mixed offences. Why don't you do that?

I'd like to have an answer, please, Mr. Chairman.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Thank you, Madam Mourani. We'll get the answer.

[A/Commr Peter Henschel]

I think we have to make a distinction. The DNA Identification Act does not allow us, people working at DNA databank, to know who is in that databank. That is the reason for having taken the DNA sample and also taking a fingerprint.

However, if we don't have somebody entered into the national criminal record repository, through a legal process—which is a C-216 based on charges that we have to see and verify that allow us to enter it—we're not in a position to make that link between the DNA sample and a person.

We need that C-216 with all the information that comes with it, including why it was taken and making sure that is legal, to allow us to make a link between an unidentified sample in the databank and the criminal record. The information obtained on form 3800 or 3801 is not the same as C-216.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Thank you very much, Mr. Henschel.

We'll now go to Mr. Lobb.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to first thank you folks for coming before the committee today and thank you for the work you do day in and day out. I think the taxpayers of Canada are quite happy to see that the RCMP continues to move forward, adapt with change, and embrace new technologies, so thank you for that.

I'm from a rural riding in southwestern Ontario that largely has OPP and the odd municipal force still intact. Who's leading up the coordination and the collaboration with the other police services that have embraced this technology? Communities close to our area would be London and Waterloo, for example, so is there somebody within the RCMP that is liaising with the other municipal services, city services, and OPP to have them embrace this technology? How does that get kicked off?

[A/Commr Peter Henschel]

We do that through a variety of mechanisms. Once we had this technology up and running--had that done in October--in November I sent a letter to all chiefs of police across the country giving an update on where we were with vulnerable sector screening and some other things. In closing I also said that we now have this availability to connect electronically and encouraged them to do so.

I know that in Guylaine's area there's also interaction with police services on an ongoing basis. Certainly we're encouraging police services to embrace this technology. I know also that on Ontario's side, for example, there are provincial organizations on the CPIC side that relate to this civil screening, and that there are organizations where the police services get together and work together as well.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

That's great. I hope that the OPP and Commissioner Lewis are able to take this technology on as soon as possible.

For people in my community, it's an hour's drive, anyway you cut it, to London or Waterloo. If they needed to have a fingerprint scan done as fast as possible, would they be able to go to London or Waterloo, and have their fingerprint taken digitally, so they could speed the process up?