Evidence of meeting #55 for Public Safety and National Security in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was victims.
A recording is available from Parliament.
8:10 p.m.
Conservative
Phil McColeman Conservative Brant, ON
Can you answer the question? Do you believe that our legislation is heading in the wrong direction, yes or no?
8:10 p.m.
Community Chair of Justice, Church Council on Justice and Corrections
Yes.
8:10 p.m.
Conservative
Phil McColeman Conservative Brant, ON
Okay. Did you also appear before the government operations committee on February 8?
8:10 p.m.
Community Chair of Justice, Church Council on Justice and Corrections
Yes, I did.
8:10 p.m.
Conservative
Phil McColeman Conservative Brant, ON
I'm going to read an exchange at that meeting between you a member of our party, Mr. Warkentin.
Mr. Warkentin asked you if you believed that people who rape children should be put in prison. Your answer was: “Not necessarily.”
8:10 p.m.
NDP
Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC
In respect of relevance, you have at various times shown no shyness in bringing questioning back to the business in hand. I would like to ask whether it is relevant to question a witness about rape at a meeting on accelerated parole, which applies only to non-violent offenders.
8:10 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson
I think Mr. McColeman is trying to see if she is an expert on crime or crime legislation.
Try to keep it within a crime perspective and the philosophy of what the crime may be.
8:15 p.m.
Conservative
Phil McColeman Conservative Brant, ON
Two points, Mr. Chair.
First of all, I hope this doesn't go against my time.
8:15 p.m.
Conservative
8:15 p.m.
Conservative
Phil McColeman Conservative Brant, ON
Secondly, I am relating this to the testimony of this witness. I started my comment in that regard. I will tie it back to her testimony. I just want you to know that.
Mr. Warkentin asked whether or not you believed that people who rape children should be put in prison. Your answer was: “Not necessarily.”
Is that correct, yes or no?
8:15 p.m.
Community Chair of Justice, Church Council on Justice and Corrections
There are no—
8:15 p.m.
Conservative
8:15 p.m.
NDP
Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC
Mr. Chairman, Mr. McColeman is asking an inflammatory question, and to put a woman from the Christian community on the spot about a question and then not give her the opportunity to explain is totally unfair.
8:15 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson
We have to give her time. She admitted that was her testimony that day.
Madam Berzins, you may have time to respond.
8:15 p.m.
Community Chair of Justice, Church Council on Justice and Corrections
I guess a yes or no answer to that question does not accurately reflect the views of the organization I work with, the Church Council on Justice and Corrections. I believe that we have a societal problem here in terms of how we use prison. We think that the only way a victim experiences justice is through a term of imprisonment. What makes me very sad here tonight is to hear about everything these victims have gone through and there has not been any help for them. The help for them should start from the moment we realize that harm has been done. If we put more money into sentences of imprisonment that are not going to help them, in terms of what they really need, and are not going to prevent a crime, we have less money to give them the real services they need from the very beginning, after what has happened to them. I think that's a priority. I think this government is not putting enough money into services for victims. We know of ways in the community that could much better provide for them, in terms of the stress, in terms of reparation, and in terms of compensation. That is far more important.
There isn't any kind of offence related to what they are talking about for which an automatic penalty of imprisonment is going to be the full answer to what they need. I would really like the conversation. In our churches as well we know that a lot of people, our whole society, culturally, has fallen for this. We need to see the example of the people in the U.S., who are realizing what a mistake it was, and wake up.
You were also talking about judges. Judges are also feeling very much compelled by public opinion that says prison, prison, prison, and that is not giving us what we need. We need much better services for the kinds of things you have been through, and we need them from the very beginning. If we do everything through the adversarial system, we're just going to keep people pitted against each other and not put money into what is most important for us as communities.
8:15 p.m.
Conservative
Phil McColeman Conservative Brant, ON
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Jackie, earlier in your testimony I believe you said that it looks and feels to you like you were raped. Is that what you said?
8:15 p.m.
As an Individual
I had to fight against an entire system, starting with the police. The culture is such that we are not protected.
They're sorry for us. That's what we hear from the police at the beginning. I had to fight against the whole system alone and find all the victims one by one. This is not my job. There's a whole culture to change. You have to put everybody together and say that there's a problem here. I'm a victim, and I have to fight to protect myself and I have to fight to protect other citizens like me. That's not normal.
8:15 p.m.
Conservative