Evidence of meeting #6 for Public Safety and National Security in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was farms.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:35 p.m.
National President, Union of Solicitor General Employees
Does either one of you have those numbers?
4:40 p.m.
Agribusiness Instructor for the Abattoir, CORCAN Agribusiness, Pittsburgh Institution, Correctional Service Canada
Well, I'm at Pittsburgh currently, and I would say there are in excess of 40, but the program has already been scaled down. They did employ about 60 inmates there, but we're at 40 currently.
4:40 p.m.
Conservative
Dave MacKenzie Conservative Oxford, ON
You're at Pittsburgh. My understanding is that Pittsburgh will not close down, and that an independent operator is planning to take it over and employ inmates at the facility.
4:40 p.m.
Agribusiness Instructor for the Abattoir, CORCAN Agribusiness, Pittsburgh Institution, Correctional Service Canada
That's for the abattoir only, and that contractor has been operating the abattoir there for 14 years now.
4:40 p.m.
Conservative
4:40 p.m.
Agribusiness Instructor for the Abattoir, CORCAN Agribusiness, Pittsburgh Institution, Correctional Service Canada
That's something we're not sure of. His contract expires in October.
4:40 p.m.
Conservative
Dave MacKenzie Conservative Oxford, ON
I think you indicated there were jobs for those people. If that carries on, then that part of it is not adversely affected. Wouldn't that be a fair assessment?
4:40 p.m.
Agribusiness Instructor for the Abattoir, CORCAN Agribusiness, Pittsburgh Institution, Correctional Service Canada
If it carries on.... That's the myth--
4:40 p.m.
Conservative
Dave MacKenzie Conservative Oxford, ON
Yes, okay, and I'm not asking you to suggest that it will or it won't; it's just that it is a fact.
Mr. Leeman, I'm impressed with your being here. I appreciate that you are here. I can understand that it is somewhat difficult.
4:40 p.m.
LifeLine InReach worker and Ex-lifer Farm Program Participant, As an Individual
It is.
4:40 p.m.
Conservative
Dave MacKenzie Conservative Oxford, ON
You deserve the committee's thanks for being here.
You indicated that you served...how long?
4:40 p.m.
LifeLine InReach worker and Ex-lifer Farm Program Participant, As an Individual
I served 10 years in the federal system on a life sentence. I've been on full parole now for 19 years.
4:40 p.m.
LifeLine InReach worker and Ex-lifer Farm Program Participant, As an Individual
I served about seven and a half of it before I hit the minimum. That's what I was just trying to say, because when you're working in the higher security, the work hours are not there. Even though you're learning the trade, you're not able to demonstrate your ability on machinery. As I said, I was welding little pieces and I ended up getting my welding tickets, but I still had one of the farm staff teaching me some of the things about that not being the way you go around welding--it has be boxed and learned in other trades--so it's nice that I had the fundamentals, but I didn't actually get to demonstrate some of these work ethics until I got to the farm.
4:40 p.m.
Conservative
Dave MacKenzie Conservative Oxford, ON
You said you spent seven and a half years and then for the last two and a half years you were on the farm?
4:40 p.m.
LifeLine InReach worker and Ex-lifer Farm Program Participant, As an Individual
Yes, I was two years on the farm. I went into working on a committee to do other things because then I was moving towards my reintegration. I was ready. I completed the stuff that I needed on the farm. I had a good work ethic, and it led me into a work release that allowed me to go out and work. In those days you were allowed to go out for a certain amount of time to find your own job. I took those work ethics to a car lot. I found an auto wrecker and I started ripping cars apart. At least I started working, so....
4:40 p.m.
Conservative
Dave MacKenzie Conservative Oxford, ON
Did you find that employment as soon as you left or was it with the help of--
4:40 p.m.
LifeLine InReach worker and Ex-lifer Farm Program Participant, As an Individual
No, I actually had to get it extended. I remember that I couldn't find a job at the time, but the institution gave me extended time to find a job. I actually just went to the lowest-paid job. I took a minimum wage job, even though I went out with the credentials. I was qualified for higher pay, but I started at the bottom and worked my way up.
4:40 p.m.
Conservative
Dave MacKenzie Conservative Oxford, ON
Is not a major part of why prisoners are rehabilitated so that they can find work when they leave--find housing and work and...?
4:40 p.m.
LifeLine InReach worker and Ex-lifer Farm Program Participant, As an Individual
What I'm trying to say about the farm is that it's about learning the life skills. There's a lot more than just working on the farm. We've seen guys who sat in behind the wall, rigid and not getting along, and we watched them cascade down to lower security.
I used a story in one of the talks I did about a guy who took a lot of pride in the job. The guy was attached to his job. He wasn't quite as efficient as the other guy and he thought he could go over and be the boss of this guy. One of the farm staff saw that and went over and said, “That's my job to do. I know when you do your job”. The guy didn't freak out; he actually turned around and said, “I learned a very valuable tool, because if I'd been on the workforce, I would have been fired”.
That's why some of these things are so important. There are so many related things other than just working on the farm. It's the life skills and the interaction with the people from the community, and it really is getting you more ready for the street. It makes you more alert about the statement that you used to live inside a corrections facility. You can forget very quickly what it's like out there. I think that's a very good process, and it's a positive reintegration.
What I'm here for is to say that when you have a positive reintegration in working with the community like that, for public safety it's definitely a better place for everybody.
4:40 p.m.
Conservative
Dave MacKenzie Conservative Oxford, ON
You said, and I've forgotten, how long ago it was that you got out and have been on the street.
4:45 p.m.
LifeLine InReach worker and Ex-lifer Farm Program Participant, As an Individual
I've been out 19 years now.
4:45 p.m.
Conservative
4:45 p.m.
LifeLine InReach worker and Ex-lifer Farm Program Participant, As an Individual
I've had different jobs, yes. That's why you heard me say that when I see a farmer, I see a jack of all trades. I've done numerous jobs. I've been in welding shops where somebody had become ill, and I got called in and worked for three months while the guy was recuperating. Then I had to leave, and it was sad to leave.
Working on heavy equipment, again, gave me the confidence to sit in a five-ton truck. I started driving right off the hop and ended up staying there for five years, but without the experience being given, you can't drive this stuff. They encourage you to get your licence before you can even drive on the institutional property. They encourage you to move on and go out and get your licence. A lot of guys who were not working with the staff would sit back and be--
4:45 p.m.
Conservative