Evidence of meeting #31 for Public Safety and National Security in the 41st Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was grievances.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Conservative
Conservative
Candice Bergen Conservative Portage—Lisgar, MB
I just want to make a very quick point.
Thank you for that. I think that would lead to my next comment.
All of us support the complaints process. I think it will be interesting when the commissioner comes, to hear exactly how the process works. But as I read this bill, individuals actually even have the latitude to make some vexatious complaints, which actually gives room for people who may be having a mental illness issue, or they might have an issue that might not seem valid to us, but to them it is. It gives room for that because this bill doesn't say if you make one vexatious complaint, which by the way, according to Webster's, says, “Denoting an action, or the bringer of an action, that is brought without sufficient grounds for winning, purely to cause annoyance to the defendant.” So that would be the definition of vexatious according to Webster. This bill actually allows individuals to do that. It actually allows for some vexatious complaints. It does not allow multiple complaints or grievances that are vexatious, frivolous in nature, or not made in good faith.
I don't understand, and I really would like to understand, because I know both of you are advocates for inmates. I think I told you before that I volunteered for many years at Stony Mountain, and I believe a lot of hope and healing can come to prisoners. I just see this as such a good, positive bill that actually would give more room to people who are making legitimate complaints, like the ones you referred to when you said that when you hear about complaints, it's about people not having a plan or not having access to treatment. Those were all complaints that should be addressed. I guess I just don't understand.
It would be so refreshing to have applicants come in to say this actually is a good step forward, that there's more work that needs to be done, but it's a positive step. It's sometimes disappointing that it takes so much to get that positive feedback when I think we really are trying to do the best thing in terms of our correctional system. This complaints process should be strong. It should be something inmates know they can count on and that they won't be penalized. I think this does that.
I hope you look at this again, and that we could count on your support for this bill.
Executive Director, Elizabeth Fry Society of Canada
I think it's unfortunate that this is how our interactions are heard. I think the law already does provide for that. I think the sentiment of wanting to shore up the complaint and grievance system is not necessarily communicated in this bill. In fact that could be communicated in a very different way by providing recommendation through cabinet, perhaps--not that it's my job to tell anybody how to do their job, but to encourage them to shore up that process rather than spend a lot of time and energy and money on a new bill.
Conservative
Candice Bergen Conservative Portage—Lisgar, MB
Do you see anything positive in being able to stop multiple vexatious and frivolous complaints? Do you see anything positive in that?
Executive Director, Elizabeth Fry Society of Canada
We have never spoken against that.
Conservative
Executive Director, Elizabeth Fry Society of Canada
It doesn't need legislation. We already have the legislation. So we're not in any way opposed--
Conservative
Candice Bergen Conservative Portage—Lisgar, MB
Okay, so your opposition would be on who is making that determination, now that it would be the commissioner.
Executive Director, Elizabeth Fry Society of Canada
No. The concern is that we already have the provisions in law. The commissioner could do it, or he or she could delegate it to a supervisor. They could have the mechanisms in place. The problem is the mechanisms aren't there in place to ensure the protection. The concern we have about the grievance system is not with vexatious complaints, it's with all the complaints that aren't being dealt with. So it's not a reflection of not supporting--
Conservative
Candice Bergen Conservative Portage—Lisgar, MB
It's not this. You're actually speaking about something completely different in terms of legitimate complaints not being dealt with in a timely manner. But you do agree, then, with the concept of being able to label somebody as a multiple vexatious complainant?
Executive Director, Elizabeth Fry Society of Canada
We've never spoken against that. The problem is that this bill isn't required to do that. So we'd rather not see a waste of the taxpayers' dollars.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson
Thank you very much.
I think you've given us an opportunity to come with some good questions to the commissioner, so we appreciate that. Some of the points you just made.... We can ask about the process when the commissioner appears.
Also, on behalf of the committee, or actually on behalf of myself, I guess, we would like to apologize to both of you. My understanding is that we had to change rooms after the confirmation was sent to Ms. Pate and Ms. Latimer, and there was no update sent to them. So when you came here running and huffing and puffing, we appreciate that you did everything you could to get here as quickly as possible. We will take the blame for that.
Thank you for being here.
We are going to suspend momentarily, and then we will go in camera to deal with committee business.
[Proceedings continue in camera]
