Public Safety Committee on May 9th, 2013

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Good morning, everyone.

This meeting number 86 of the Standing Committee on Public Safety and National Security, on Thursday, May 9, 2013.

This morning we're leaving our regular study of the economics of policing, and are responding to a motion that came before our committee and was passed unanimously. That is a briefing on security of rail transport.

With us today we have Gerard McDonald, he is assistant deputy minister of safety and security at Transport Canada; John Davies, director general of national security policy at the department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness Canada; Chief Superintendent Larry Tremblay, director general of federal policing criminal operations with the Royal Canadian Mounted Police; Michel Coulombe, the deputy director of operations at the Canadian Security Intelligence Service; and also, from VIA Rail Canada we have Marc Tessier, director of corporate security and regulatory affairs, safety, security, and risk management; Marc Beaulieu, the regional general manager east, and chief of transportation; and Jacques Gagnon, the spokesperson for corporate communications.

Our committee thanks all the witnesses for responding to our request to appear and brief us on rail transport security. Canadians thank you and the public servants responsible for keeping Canada's railways safe. Be assured that Canadians rely on your work as they go about their day-to-day business. We place our trust in the work of the employees, the agents, the officers, and others under your command.

We will have time for questions from the members of Parliament on our committee, following the briefings that you present to us today.

I'll remind members, and also officials who appear here, that we aren't looking for any operational details, so to speak, that may put security at risk. We expect that all those security measures will be non-compromised, and that you will have the ability to determine whether or not that is the fact with the question asked.

We're looking forward to your briefings.

We'll open the floor this morning with Mr. Davies.

[John Davies, Director General, National Security Policy, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

It may make sense that I go first, as my comments are written at a higher level and will give context to the comments of my colleagues.

As many of you know, Public Safety Canada leads policy development on a number of national security issues. Our role's often one of convenor and facilitator, bringing together the security and intelligence community to develop and improve policy. While the recent arrests in Toronto and Montreal may raise concerns about the threat of terrorism, they also demonstrate the ability of law enforcement and intelligence agencies to work well together.

Today, I will focus primarily on the Government of Canada's efforts to counter the threat of terrorism.

Last February, the Minister of Public Safety released “Building Resilience Against Terrorism: Canada's Counter-terrorism Strategy”. This document describes a framework within which the 15-plus members of the federal security and intelligence community organize their efforts against terrorism. These efforts are framed around four mutually reinforcing elements, namely preventing, detecting, denying, and responding to terrorism.

Activities in the prevention element focus on the resilience of communities to extremism, helping build their capacity to effectively challenge extremists' narratives. This is a long-term effort. The recent terrorist related arrests in Toronto and Montreal, particularly the supportive reaction by local communities, are good examples of many years of engagement efforts to earn their trust by the RCMP, CSIS, Public Safety, and local police. Last year, for example, the RCMP coordinated over 400 specific outreach sessions to raise awareness among youth and adults of national security issues and of the role key agencies play in countering threats and making communities safer.

Furthermore, the Cross Cultural Roundtable on Security, which advises the Minister of Public Safety and the Minister of Justice, brings together leading citizens from diverse communities with extensive experience in social and cultural issues to engage with the government on national security issues.

Efforts in the element of detect aim to identify terrorist threats in a manner that often requires timely sharing of information. Detection requires a strong understanding of the threat environment and the strong intelligence capacity to identify threats. Our knowledge has to keep pace with terrorist groups, their capabilities, and the nature of their plans. To accomplish this task within government, departments and agencies share information for national security purposes every day.

There's a strong link to the third element, denying. Emphasis here is on denying terrorists the means and opportunities to carry out their activities through effective law enforcement and prosecution of terrorists.

The key principle in all of these elements is that of partnership. The RCMP-led integrated and national security enforcement teams—also known as INSETs—are models of partnership and key to our work to detect terrorists and deny them the means and opportunity to carry out their intent. INSETs are staffed by employees from CSIS, CBSA, local law enforcement, and the RCMP. This approach has greatly improved the ability of agencies to work together and has led to many successes, including the recent charges in Montreal and Toronto as well as prior arrests including Momin Khawaja in Ottawa and members of the Toronto 18.

Last year, recognizing the value of this model, the government created a new INSET in Edmonton in addition to the existing ones in Ontario, Quebec, and British Columbia. Note also that under the national strategy and action plan for critical infrastructure, sector networks have been established to facilitate information-sharing and risk-management activities among governments and private sector owners and operators, including rail sector stakeholders.

The rail sectors also represent the national cross-sector forum, which brings together public and private sector partners from all ten critical infrastructure sectors to set priorities and address shared issues such as cyber-security and border management.

Finally our approach to counterterrorism also includes a need for a proportionate and rapid response to any terrorist activities and to mitigating their effects. We have infrastructure in place to communicate with government, and between governments at all levels and private sector owners and operators of critical infrastructure including transportation. In the event of a terrorist incident involving transportation, the government operations centre is connected to other key operation centres across government to manage incidents, including those housed within the RCMP, DND, CSIS, DFAIT, CBSA, and Transport Canada.

Given our shared critical infrastructure with the U.S., there's also close collaboration on critical infrastructure protection and response mechanisms to threats.

For a terrorist incident within Canada, or for incidents overseas with a domestic impact, the Government has adopted an all hazards approach to emergency management. This is articulated in the Federal Emergency Response Plan, managed by the Minister of Public Safety.

With that, Mr. Chair, I think I'll leave it there.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Thank you, Mr. Davies.

We'll move to the next one on the list. We have Chief Superintendent Larry Tremblay of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police.

[C/Supt Larry Tremblay, Director General, Federal Policing Criminal Operations, Royal Canadian Mounted Police]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Good morning and thank you for the opportunity to address this committee on these issues of such concern to Canadians.

You are all aware of the sensitivity of many of the issues we will discuss here today. Some of my answers may reflect the care that must be taken when matters are before the court or when assets and personal security must be the priority.

I appreciate the opportunity to provide you with some information about programs and partnerships that the RCMP has developed to assist in keeping Canada's infrastructure, including the railway systems, safe.

The recent success in Project Smooth is a clear demonstration of the effectiveness of our integrated approach. The RCMP integrated national security enforcement teams are responsible for investigating potential threats to Canada's critical infrastructure, including railway systems that support passenger and freight trains. But we cannot do so alone.

At the detachment level, through calls for services, the RCMP works with railway police services and rail operators to support criminal investigations that directly impact rail assets and to ensure railway property is secure against potential criminal threats. Examples of regular collaboration between RCMP, rail police services, municipal police, and rail operators include joint exercises that are held throughout various locations. Scenarios from previous exercises included hostage-taking, bomb threats, hijacking, and an explosive attack against a freight train.

Based on operational requirements, members of the RCMP's Jetway team may also deploy to some train stations and passenger trains to counter organized crime and extremist elements that may exploit rail. In addition to the counterterrorism information officer program, the RCMP has provided training to rail operators on how to recognize behaviour that may be indicative of pre-incident attack planning.

The RCMP critical infrastructure intelligence team maintains information-sharing partnerships with rail police services, municipal transit police units, and rail operators throughout the country. Such partners contribute to the suspicious incident reporting program, which is a secure portal where partners voluntarily report behaviour-based incidents that may be indicative of pre-attack planning by extremists.

Having this network of security-cleared rail operators also allows the RCMP to disseminate regular intelligence reporting to these partners, including threat assessment, bulletins on ongoing investigative files, and analytical reports on suspicious incidents. These products are intended to foster strong partnerships, cultivate a two-way flow of information, as well as generate awareness to a particular issue or call for heightened vigilance where appropriate.

Existing partnerships with rail operators have provided the RCMP with a direct line into the organizations that were collaborating with us during Project Smooth. Such collaboration proved invaluable. For example, the critical infrastructure intelligence team seconded from one of the major railway police services directly supported this project by providing technical information on rail operation.

Other rail security initiatives where the RCMP has collaborated include government-sponsored classified briefings for owners and operators of surface transportation assets, including passenger and freight rail services. These briefings are hosted by Transport Canada, a valuable partner in the transportation security file.

In addition, the RCMP participates each year in Public Safety Canada's all hazards risk assessment. This year the RCMP is co-leading a scenario involving an extremist attack on rail infrastructure. Such an assessment is intended to support a future exercise intended to test rail security and emergency response.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Thanks very much, Chief Superintendent.

We'll now move to Michel Coulombe and CSIS, please.

[Michel Coulombe, Deputy Director of Operations, Canadian Security Intelligence Service]

Mr. Chair, and members of the committee, good morning.

I am pleased to be here today to discuss issues relating to security threats to critical infrastructure in Canada, and particularly to our rail network.

As members will know, CSIS is mandated to collect, analyze, and advise the Government of Canada on threats to the security of Canada. Since attacks on Canada's critical infrastructure are clear threats against the security of Canada, CSIS works closely with other departments and agencies in protecting our critical infrastructure, notably through the national strategy for critical infrastructure, Canada's cyber-security strategy, and Canada's counterterrorism strategy.

That being said, I would like to clarify for the committee that CSIS is not the lead agency when it comes to critical infrastructure protection. Questions relating to actual rail infrastructure security and practices are best addressed to Transport Canada and the rail companies themselves.

What I can speak to is the nature of the threat. Mr. Chair, threats to our critical infrastructure can take many forms. They include: terrorism, such as from groups or individuals directed or inspired by al-Qaeda; domestic issue-motivated extremists, whether right- or left-wing; and foreign states, which may have an interest in stealing Canada's technology or even crippling our infrastructure.

Attacks against critical infrastructure and industrial sabotage are not new in Canada. Indeed, our country has a history of such attacks and plots from a variety of groups, including: the bombing of a transmission tower in Quebec in 2004; the Toronto 18 plot to bomb the Toronto Stock Exchange in 2006; and the bombing of pipelines in British Columbia in 2008-09.

These examples remind us all too well that terrorism is not something that happens only in other countries. There are people in groups here and now who seek to commit acts of violence in Canada and who, given the chance, would kill innocent Canadians and destroy civilian infrastructure. The plot that was foiled last month was going to be carried out here in Canada.

That said, terrorism is a globalized threat, and our security cannot be divorced from that of the international community and from the activities of Canadians abroad. We are also increasingly concerned about lone actors working from often deeply personal or plainly unknown motivations. These individuals are hard to track or anticipate, as they provide few operational leads for investigators and are difficult to profile.

Computer hacker groups, or "hacktivists," could also pose a threat, as anyone with a predilection for computers and malevolent motivations could cause serious harm to our infrastructure.

And of course, we must not forget the threat posed by certain states, which could target our critical infrastructure to achieve their own military or economic objectives. Given our mandate, countering state-sponsored threats to our infrastructure remains a key priority for the Service.

In today's digital world, critical infrastructure networks are almost all linked up in ways that make them vulnerable to attacks, particularly cyber-attacks, and it is not difficult to ascertain the advantages of attacking or sabotaging critical infrastructure. Such attacks could cause significant disruption in transportation and commerce, and lead to important economic losses to the intended target. They can also provide easy and predictable news coverage for the perpetrator's propaganda aims and often boost its recruitment efforts.

Finally, by targeting innocent civilians they instill a sense of fear in the general population. Certainly, different groups operate on somewhat different motives. Al-Qaeda-inspired groups and individuals will almost always wish to kill people. Issue-motivated groups may only target property to send a clear and specific message, and foreign states might seek to advance their defence or trade interests.

On that note, Mr. Chair, I would like to thank you for your attention and I would welcome from members questions on any issues I have raised.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Thank you very much, sir.

We'll now move to the Department of Transport, to the assistant deputy minister for safety and security, Gerard McDonald.

Welcome.

[Gerard McDonald, Assistant Deputy Minister, Safety and Security, Department of Transport]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you committee members. I appreciate this opportunity to meet with your committee today to provide information about Transport Canada's role in enhancing the security of the rail transportation system.

Let me begin by saying that the safety and security of transportation systems are of the utmost importance to the Government of Canada.

On April 22, 2013, the RCMP arrested two individuals and charged them with conspiring to carry out a terrorist attack against a VIA train. It's important to note that there was no imminent threat to the general public, rail employees, train passengers, or infrastructure. These arrests, however, have highlighted the importance of continued vigilance within the transportation system.

They have also emphasized that securing rail and urban transit requires a partnership approach including all levels of government, local law enforcement, first responders, operators, and industry associations, supported by a range of tools that can be implemented by operators of all sizes.

Transport Canada works closely with operators to safeguard the security of their operations. For example, in 2007 the Government of Canada renewed a memorandum of understanding on security with the Railway Association of Canada and its members.

As part of the MOU, rail operators are required, amongst other things, to conduct security risk assessments and develop security plans relevant to their operations. Based on the identified risks, operators develop and implement appropriate security practices.

Transport Canada works with MOU signatories and conducts oversight and monitoring activities to help industry meet the terms and conditions of the MOU and promote a more secure rail transportation system. For example, Transport Canada uses regionally located inspectors to audit the extent to which signatories meet the terms and conditions of the MOU. This evaluation process involves assessments and inspections of the important aspects of an operator's security program.

The government can also exercise various legislative authorities to enhance the security of the rail transportation system in certain circumstances. For example, to enhance security during the 2010 Vancouver Olympics and the G-8 and G-20 in 2010 in Toronto, Transport Canada used security authorities under the Railway Safety Act.

From 2006 to 2009, Transport Canada also managed the Transit-Secure program. This program provided financial assistance on a cost-shared basis to both small and large commuter rail and public transit operators throughout Canada to further enhance their security measures for addressing potential threats of terrorism.

Industry and government also collaborate on the development of voluntary codes of practice on such matters as conducting security risk assessments, developing and maintaining security plans, conducting security exercises, and training and awareness. Transport Canada officials also participate in workshops with rail and transit associations to promote rail security. We have also collaborated with industry in the creation of an intelligence network for the sharing of security intelligence and incident reporting.

In conclusion, I want to reiterate that security is of the utmost importance to the Government of Canada. Security of the transportation system is also everyone's business and is enhanced through partnerships, the promotion of a security culture and awareness across all jurisdictions and sectors.

Thank you again for offering Transport Canada the opportunity to present how it is working to enhance the security of Canada's rail transportation system.

I would welcome any questions you may have on the work we do in this regard.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Thank you very much, Mr. McDonald.

We will now move to Montreal to VIA Rail.

I'm not certain whether there is one statement or two. Monsieur Beaulieu, the floor is yours.

[Marc Beaulieu, Regional General Manager, East and Chief of Transporation, Customer Experience, VIA Rail Canada Inc.]

Good morning.

My name is Marc Beaulieu. I'm regional general manager and chief of transportation for VIA Rail. I'm happy to be joined today by Marc Tessier, our director of security and regulatory affairs, as well as by Jacques Gagnon, our VIA spokesperson.

Mr. Chair, members of the committee, we are pleased to be participating in this meeting by videoconference.

On behalf of VIA Rail Canada, I wish to thank you, Mr. Chair, for our invitation to appear before this committee.

VIA Rail's safety and security policies are rigorous and strictly applied. We have high training standards for our employees who work on board trains and those who serve passengers. Our mechanisms for reporting any kind of risk to police authorities are very effective.

Safety and security are paramount at VIA Rail. We recognize and salute the work of law enforcement. Passenger train travel is among the safest and we work diligently to keep it that way. As a member of the Railway Association of Canada, VIA Rail is signatory to the memorandum of understanding on railway security between the Railway Association of Canada and Transport Canada. The memorandum of understanding covers the following essential elements: security plans, training and awareness, exercises, and incident reporting. In compliance with the above, VIA Rail has submitted a security plan that reflects our current security model. The plan is risk-based, using Transport Canada's threat context statements as a basis for risk assessment.

As part of its security plan, VIA Rail has implemented the following programs and procedures. Security awareness training is mandatory for all employees. This training was developed in consultation with the RCMP. A group of front-line employees have also received face-to-face training by members of the RCMP. Management employees with security responsibilities have received training given by the RCMP officers, in conjunction with the Canadian Police College in Ottawa. Intelligence training and certification were also obtained through the Privy Council Office.

VIA Rail routinely conducts security exercises to ensure that programs and procedures are functioning as designed. Part of this process relies on participation of various police forces, including the RCMP, on training exercises that focus on familiarizing officers with VIA Rail operations and equipment, and synchronizing our respective responses. VIA Rail also has procedures in place to ensure the reporting of incidents with a nexus to terrorism to the appropriate authorities. This includes partnership with the RCMP in the suspicious incident reporting initiative and notification to Transport Canada.

Above and beyond these requirements, VIA's security plan also establishes our letter of understanding program, which involves authorizing law enforcement agencies full access to our properties. This empowers the law enforcement agencies to act on our behalf. The RCMP is signatory on several letters of understanding. It enables us to establish strong partnerships and facilitates intelligence gathering and sharing.

VIA partners with host railway police who are responsible for infrastructure protection over a significant portion of the track that VIA Rail operates. VIA also works closely with Transport Canada to participate on various initiatives, committees, and working groups. This work has led to the establishment of the codes of practice that outline industry best practices related to security, security plans, threat and risk assessment, security awareness training, and public awareness.

In conclusion, I would like to thank our law enforcement partners and Transport Canada for continuously helping us improve and be more effective in terms of security. We deliver on our promise to keep the travelling public safe.

In closing, I would like to thank law enforcement agencies and Transport Canada for their ongoing support. It allows us to keep our promise to provide secure service for our passengers.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Thank you very much, Monsieur Beaulieu.

We will move into the first round of questioning. It's a seven-minute round.

We'll go to Mr. Hawn, please, for seven minutes.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to all our witnesses for appearing on pretty short notice.

I'd like to start with Public Safety Canada, Mr. Davies. You talked about the continuum of prevent, detect, deny, and respond. Obviously we'd like to not get to the respond part. We'd like to stop it earlier. I think the key to that is obviously detection, and to me a key to that is having access to the information that's out there. There's a lot of information out there on the Internet and in other sources.

Do you think we need some kind of legislation that would permit lawful access, under appropriate supervision, to the Internet to detect the kind of activity that leads to what we've just witnessed?

[John Davies]

In broad terms, access to information is intelligence. They're synonyms. They go together. Any kind of policy program or legislative improvement that helps law enforcement, our intelligence agencies, access more information to make it lawful to lower risk to Canadians, that's obviously something you want to consider. You want to consider all the pros and cons of doing that and the best way to legislate it, for sure. Obviously information sharing with the private sector, with other parts of government, anything we can do to facilitate that is a good thing in my view.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

I'm guessing that none of the other panellists would disagree with that. I'm not seeing any disagreement, thank you.

I'd like to stick with Public Safety, Mr. Davies, for a second. One of my other jobs is as the Canadian co-chair of the Canada-U.S. Permanent Joint Board on Defence. As I'm sure you know, there's a lot of cooperation on that between Public Safety and the Homeland Security side. Could you talk a little bit about...?

We've kind of talked about the Canadian side of this, which obviously ultimately is the most important to us. Can you talk a little bit about the coordination with the U.S. in general terms, or if there is anything sort of specific to rail safety that you could talk about?

[John Davies]

Just maybe in general terms and my colleagues can talk about a more specific link to rail. The beyond the border initiative agreement between President Obama and Prime Minister Harper is a big driver of a lot of security-related investments and efforts over the last few years. Of course, one aspect of that is information sharing, working together also on different threat assessments, investments to make the border safer, to push the border out from a permanent perspective.

So a lot of the work we're doing with the U.S. is sort of driven by very concrete objectives linked to the border action plan. The action plan has a number of specific metrics, deliverable dates, and so on. It has really helped energize and open a lot of doors for us with the U.S. and I think vice versa. So that's a big part at least from the national security policy and information-sharing point of view. That's a big piece of the puzzle for us.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

Thank you.

I'd like to turn to VIA Rail now along that same line with respect to MOUs or agreements you have with other rail companies, specifically cross-border. What kinds of arrangements do you have for information sharing, intelligence-sharing cooperation, with other operators, specifically Amtrak?

[Marc Beaulieu]

We have a very close relationship with Amtrak. We value our partnership with them. We're in constant communication whether it be operational or security wise. We certainly share information extremely well. As I said, it's an extension. We keep them informed as much as required to make sure that our mutual networks are well informed of any threats.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

Thank you.

To the RCMP now, Superintendent Tremblay, I was lucky enough to be in Edmonton to help announce the integrated national security enforcement teams. So it's a relatively new concept, although I know you've been collaborating forever in these areas, and this has formalized it.

Is that working as planned and is there an international component to that or could you describe at least in broad terms the international component of that with agencies south of the border?

[C/Supt Larry Tremblay]

Obviously the RCMP works very closely with our U.S. law enforcement partners. The INSETs here in Canada are just a formalized version of the level of cooperation amongst the agencies. Even where we don't have an INSET, there's a high level of collaboration throughout. The INSETs allow us to formalize that and work closely together. The level of sharing at the provincial, federal, and municipal levels is outstanding.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

For CSIS, events change. Things can unfold fairly quickly. I know how you're going to answer this, but I'm going to ask it anyway. How quickly can CSIS adapt? I guess I just want some level of comfort that CSIS is manned and equipped, etc., to adapt fairly quickly when new threats arise or when the landscape changes.

[Michel Coulombe]

We are a very nimble organization. That's the nature of the work we do, so we have to adapt all the time. If you go back to moving from more of a CI priority during the Cold War to more of a CT environment today.... The emergence of cyber was also another issue we had to adapt to. So we have the analytical capability and the operational capability to adapt to the emergence of new threats and environments.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

For Transport Canada—because I don't want to leave anybody out—Mr. McDonald, you obviously have Transport Canada's responsibility for transportation, safety, and security. What mechanisms do you use to ensure that operators—whether it's on the rail side or the air transport side, whatever—are in fact fulfilling their obligations?

[Gerard McDonald]

We have a number of mechanisms. First and foremost, we conduct oversight of the operators to make sure that they're living up either to our regulatory framework or to the MOUs that we have in place. We've also established security networks in each of the modes where we ensure that operators have people cleared at the appropriate level, at the secret level, so that we can share any information with them that might become available to us in the event that there is a threat to the system. It allows us in concert with them to raise vigilance as appropriate.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

What kind of inspections do you conduct? Do you do things like what we in the air force would call a "no-notice Tac Eval"? Do you do those kinds of exercises?

[Gerard McDonald]

We might do that.

In many cases what we'll do, specifically with respect to the rail industry—all of the rail industry has security plans in place—is go in and verify that they are living up to what they say they are going to do in those security plans. We'll also consult with them on the development of their plans, and if required, if we see that something is not there, we may do surprise inspections. It's more often announced, quite frankly.